Pinnacle Studio DV vs Ulead Video Studio

[jayscott]

Hello all!

I'm really new to video editing, but have taken a lot of digital video over the past couple of years and would like to eventually get it all onto DVD's.

A couple of weeks ago I bought Pinnacle Studio DV and captured and edited one of my videos. I then rendered it as an MPEG-2 file. I don't have a DVD burner yet (plan on getting one soon) so I played the MPEG on my computer but wasn't really happy with the clarity. It seemed a little grainy when viewed on my LCD monitor. Just today I downloaded a trial version of Ulead Video Studio 6. I created a MPEG-2 from the same video and it really seems that there is a noticeable difference in clarity in what is seen on my monitor.

Is it possible to get the exact same quality on a DVD as the mini DV original or is there always some loss?

Does anyone know if the Ulead really produces a sharper image for MPEG-2? If so, are there other products that are better still? I don't plan on doing anything really fancy in the editing step except just trimming and adding titles and transitions. I just want to know how to get the highest quality in the final DVD.

Thanks for helping me decide whether stay with Pinnacle or get a different editor. All suggestions and info are greatly appreciated!

[Mac Medic]

Converting to mpeg2 of course compresses the video and leads to some loss, but it is still 720 res video. The grain you see is prob a result of the codec Pinnacle is using. My wife and i own a production company so all transfers from avi master to dvd are handled by our distributor, but if i do edit i use adobe premier and after effects to apply a film grain intentionally. I also use cinemotion to convert the DV to 24fps which also adds some blur and noise to the DV. We do this to better emulate the look and motion of 35mm film. in your case it's a matter of finding a different codec or consider it a happy accident.

[RJ]

My recommendation for the MPEG encoding is TMPGEnc ( www.tmpgenc.net ).

You don't mention which version of studio you have. I have Studio 7 and the MPEG quality is bad. Dunno is Studio 8 is better. But TMPGEnc beats Studio 7 by far.

I recommend that you edit the video with Studio, and output it again as a DV AVI. Then load that into TMPGEnc and encode to MPEG-2 with the DVD video parameters. Quality is very high, and also on my TFT I can barely see a difference. TMPGEnc's quality is impressive.

RJ

[jayscott]

RJ, I have Studio DV version 7, and being new to video editing I greatly appreciate its ease of use. I was able to edit a movie from DV tape right away on my first attempt. However after making the movie as MPEG-2 and playing it in Windows Media Player I was disappointed in the result. I have talked with several folks who were also unhappy with their DVD's in Pinnacle version 7.

Although my trial version of Ulead 6.0 was a lot more difficult for a beginner to figure out, it seemed to produce significantly better results. I don't mind doing the extra learning if I get a superior quality DVD.

I'm glad for your suggestion of TMPGEnc since I would gladly purchase that to improve the quality of all DVD's I will be creating.
Additionally I would like to keep the Pinnacle Studio DV version 7 for all it's nice capturing and editing features.

My concern is with its ease of use, since I don't have a lot of experience in editing and encoding video files. If a make the movie in Pinnacle version 7 as type AVI, can I then easily import that file into the TMPGEnc and encode it to MPEG-2 without a lot of experince on my part? Is TMPGEnc easy to install and set up on my computer?

Thanks again for all your help.

[audiyoda]

RJ is right -- when dealing with DV, keep it native. Meaning, always capture, edit, and output is DV AVI. Then convert that with whatever program you prefer (TMPGEnc being the best bang for the buck out there). ULead does output MPEG2 better -- they use a far better codec. Pinnacle is assuming your going to output to DV AVI so they use a generic MPEG2 codec.

As for TMPGEnc and how easy it is -- it's very easy. There are some very good tutorials at www.vcdhelp.com regarding that and other programs related to video editing.

-Craig

[RJ]

jayscott, just to make sure:

Pinnacle Studio 7 (I too have it) is a nice editing program, just its MPEG encoding capabilities aren't good. You can still use it as you like to, but when you're done, just don't output as MPEG-1, output as DV AVI, then encode with TMPGEnc. You use Studio 7 for capturing and editing, and TMPGEnc for MPEG-2 encoding. Then you will need another program to actually create the DVD Video Title Set (The vob, ifo and bup files) and burn it.

When you output your edited video as DV AVI you get a new AVI file. Just load that file into TMPGEnc, load the DVD template, and then TMPGEnc will encode. It takes alot of time, so it's recommendable to let TMPGEnc encode overnight.

RJ

[Mac Medic]

Isnt it possible to use a different codec with Pinnacle Studio 7 ?. Surely they allow plugins to avoid buying more software. Im asking as i have never used it and the answer may save jayscott some money.

[audiyoda]

Pinnacle Studio 7 is pretty inflexable when it comes to other codecs on the video and audio side. I've only had a chance to play with the program a few times -- I do 99% of my work in Avid Express DV, Adobe After Affects and Pinnacle Commotion.

But I will say this: I truly believe that TMPGEnc is worth the money if you want MPEG2 encoding (I think the shareware fee for the plus version is like $50). And as an encoder, it's almost as good as the Ligos LSX encoder/plugin.

-Craig

[Mac Medic]

Thanks Craig.

[jayscott]

Thanks to everyone for the advice, it is appreciated greatly.

I'm gald to hear that I didn't make a complete blunder in purchasing Pinnacle Studio 7. I gather that the AVI files that it produces are high quality and it's main problem is a weak MPEG2 codec that can be remedied by using TMPGEnc. This is good news since I really like the editing and capture features in Studio 7.

RJ, since you also use Pinnacle Studio 7, can you tell me if I can use all the default settings when capturing from my digital camcorder and when choosing AVI as the output in the make movie step?

Additionally, can I assume that AVI files created by other sources will always convert to MPEG2 when using TMPGEnc? I ask because I sometimes capture video using an ATI All in Wonder TV capture card and it may be possible to capture these as AVI and then convert them to MPEG2 using TMPGEnc.

Finally, you mention a DVD template. Could you please let me know what data that would require for my purposes. I have downloaded the free trial version of TMPGEnc but have not tried it yet.

Thanks again for all the help.

[RJ]

Hi,

sorry that I took so long, but I forgot about the thread. Now that I am at home for 1 week I went through the archives of the last 3 weeks and found it. .. well, anyway, to answer your question:

When you capture, you should use capture in full quality. The movie will be copied form tape to hard drive in full quality.

In the "make movie" part, click on AVI, and in the settings for the AVI just choose "dv video encoder". DV is a defined standard so it will automatically set the resolution (720x576@25fps for PAL or 720x480@29.97fps for NTSC) and the data rate is 3745 kbps (you can't change that).
Sound is PCM, either mono or stereo, depends how you recorded it. If you click on "like current project" Studio will set the parameters of the source avi (DV video, audio mono or stereo, sampling frequency). Then you can click ok and create the avi by clicking on AVI.
Studio 7 will now render your DV and output a new, edited DV stream. Studio 7 does intelligent rendering. It does only render the parts of your AVI that need to be rendered, i.e. because you inserted transitions, or changed the brightness, contrast or whatever. The parts you didn't edit will just be copied, thus maintaining the original quality of the footage.

When Studio 7 is finished you can encode the AVI by using TMPGEnc.
TMPGEnc includes the templates. If you like I can also send you my own template, which is already optimized.

RJ

[TwoRails]

Hi All,

Getting in here late... There is a lot of praise for TMPGEnc, but I use Ulead's Movie Studio Pro 6.5. How do these compare for MPEG 2??

TwoRails

[Omega Man]

Check out Vegas Video 3 or if your on a budget Video Factory. Both are vastly superior to Studio 7.

[audiyoda]

Although I apprecaite what Sonic Foundry has done with Video Factory (bang-for-the-buck-o-meter), Vegas Video is a toy. If you are going to pay that kind of money, buy Adobe Premiere 6.5. Sonic Foundry really should keep to audio -- it's what made them what they are. They got lucky with Video Factory and have now decided to abandon it which is a shame. But for them to put Vegas Video out there and assume pros or even semi-pros should embrace it is ridiculous.

-Craig

[audiyoda]

Originally posted by TwoRails Hi All, Getting in here late... There is a lot of praise for TMPGEnc, but I use Ulead's Movie Studio Pro 6.5. How do these compare for MPEG 2?? TwoRails

TMPGEnc is an encoder -- nothing more, nothing less. It's capable of using any codec on your system and it's lean. Very small footprint for such a powerful little app. In terms of bang-for-the-buck, there's none better.

I still use the Ligos LSX Encoder simpley because in my field I need to ensure compatability. But at $400+ it's certainly not for everyone considering it's just an encoder.

-Craig

[TwoRails]

Hi audiyoda,

Thanks for the tip!

TwoRails

PS: just for giggles, see my new thread on Burn Proof. Will post it next...

[Omega Man]

Audioyoda,
if you appreciate the opinions of experts in this field, people who make a living working for film companies and television stations I would recommend:http://www.dv.com/community/forums

Select NLE and go down to the thread entitled "first impressions Vegas Video". I have never found a bad review written on Vegas video. According to the forums that I hang out on it has easily surpassed Premier 6.5 and compares quite favorably With Final Cut Pro.

You don't have an argument with me as I don't claim to be any type of computer guru. But I input the same video into studio 7 and had over 200 drop frames in a 20 minute segment. I put the same video into Vegas and had no dropped frames.

[RJ]

With DV I had never dropped frames with Studio 7.
When capturing from analog source sometimes every now and then a frame gets lost. But I also digitalized about an hour of analog material without dropped frames.
I dunno what your problem is. Maybe another settings. Have you used the same resolution etc. ?

RJ

[audiyoda]

Originally posted by Omega Man Audioyoda, if you appreciate the opinions of experts in this field, people who make a living working for film companies and television stations I would recommend:http://www.dv.com/community/forums Select NLE and go down to the thread entitled "first impressions Vegas Video". I have never found a bad review written on Vegas video. According to the forums that I hang out on it has easily surpassed Premier 6.5 and compares quite favorably With Final Cut Pro. You don't have an argument with me as I don't claim to be any type of computer guru. But I input the same video into studio 7 and had over 200 drop frames in a 20 minute segment. I put the same video into Vegas and had no dropped frames.

Since I've owned my own studio for almost 8 years and have produced/edited/mastered and/or mixed dozens and dozens of videos/DVD's and the like, I don't think I need the opinions of 'experts' -- but thank you for the offer.

As much as I enjoy reading DV magazine (and many others), I have come to realize a few things about their on-line community -- about 10% of the people that frequent their forums are actually pros or semi-pros. I'm not knocking them or who/what they are -- it's just my observation. About the only on-line community I find worth while (it terms of video related topics) is dvgarage. But, each to his/her own.

But I do stand by my comments on Vegas Video -- it's a wanna-be. Studio 7 is certainly not professional and it's never claimed to be (where as Vegas Video does to a greater extent). But for most people, it's a better option economically. And if someone does what to spend their $$$ for a all-in-one package, them my money would be behind Premiere 6.5 for a package under $800 and Avid DV Express for a package over $800.

-Craig

[TwoRails]

All I've ever used is Media Studio Pro V6 / 6.5 and I'm still learning it. One thing I've always was curious about is: everything I read reviews on editing software, it's never included in the reviews.

Is there a real reason for this??

I know only one person with Premier, and, in sincerity, he said that he wishes he would have know about MSP as he liked more than Premier.

For my limited experience, it sure seems like a nice package to me....

TwoRail