help using paint shop pro 7

[Dswissmiss]

I'm not sure where to post this, but anyways, I need to figure out how to resize images without loosing too much of its clarity. For example, I'm scanning a picture at 300dpi, which comes out to about 16 mb, 2234 x 2939 pixels, and i need to resize it to about 100 x 150 pixels and 70 kb. Any ideas on how to manipulate the picture, or ideas on other programs I should use to make life easier?
It's for a website I'm helping to create, I have to take pictures of rugs, then resize them so the website can load faster. I'll probably also be using a 4 mega pixel digital camera instead of using a regular camera, then scanning the picture.

thank you
Dswissmiss

[TwoRails]

Hi Dswissmiss

That was a mouth full !!

1) if you want Web pics, first thing is to scan at 72 dpi, not 300.

2) resizing is very easy, and PSP also has a Web optimizer. Resize by pressing ALT-S

3) manipulation: PSP 7 is one of the easiest programs to use, without going to a much lessor program.

4) don't use the 4 MP camera in hi-res mode for Web pics. Many digital cameras, like Sony and others, actually have a Web capture mode for excellent Web shots with little or no editing.

5) you don't scan from a digital camera, so I assume you meant something else?? Like, so you can stop scanning??

HTH

TwoRails

[mairving]

It is always best to scan or take the picture at the highest possible resolution. If you aren't going to doing any editing of the picture and want to go straight to the web, then scan at the lower resolutions. If you need to crop, remove smudges, redeye, put a bikini on Fidel Castro, then you will want the highest resolution image to start with. Once you have edited it, then you can save it a 72dpi.

[Dswissmiss]

thanx for the replies! i was playing arround with psp and figured out some things you guys were talking about. but i just had some more questions. if i have two 100 x 100 kb pictures (resized from bigger pictures), one at 75dpi and the other at 300, will i notice a difference in clarity? and wouldn't a 6mp camera take clearer pictures than a 3mp one? also, what are some of the differences between cameras featuring web capture mode? (megapixel wise...guess i'll just go look at some right now)

thanx again
Dswissmiss

[reboot]

In PSP, just resize as needed, then when you go to save it, check the advanced options. It will give you a compression slider and stuff, depending on what format you're using to save it in.
Try .png for really good quality at an acceptable filesize, better than a slightly compressed .jpg or .gif

[TwoRails]

Hi Dswissmiss,

On the dpi thing. (I'll probably draw some flake here, but just try it your self and you see what I mean) dpi is Just a Setting and can be easily changed. (I'm NOT talking about scan rates...) For example, take a shot, or use a pre-exiting one and Set the dpi to 75. Print it out at, say 5 x 7. Now change ONLY the dpi to 300. Print it out again on the bottom of the photo paper, but make it the same size as the first one. (or, of course, if you're using 4x6 paper, then just print out two) You will see not difference between the two.

Now, of course, if you talk about scan rates and the like, then it makes a difference, but Not to existing (scanned or otherwise) photos.

On to the mp thing. If the quality of camera is the same, yes the 6 MP camera will take a lot better shots than the 3 MP camera. However, all things are not always equal. A couple of cameras ago, when such large MP cameras were just a dream for the average, I opted for a 1.3 MP unit over cameras in the 2 - 2.5 range because it produced better pictures.

There are other things that matter, like a Quality Glass lens over a cheap one, or even a plastic lens. Also the electronics make a big difference. If you haven't bought it yet, then make sure to do a lot of home work and read reviews and such. Many cameras don't measure up to the critical eye that their dollar amount suggests.

HTH

TwoRails

[Rick Hall]

Tworails, you are correct in a manner.
If you scan or take a picture at 75 DPI and then raise the DPI to 300, then you are correct, you will see little or no difference since the photo was originally done at 75 DPI and cannot add information on the increased resolution. BUT, if you scan at 300 DPI and print it, and then lower the DPI to 75 and print it, you will notice a large difference.

[reboot]

To add just a bit to Rick's comments.
If you scan a pic at 300dpi and copy it at 75dpi and put them both on the web, you will not be able to tell the difference.

[TwoRails]

Originally posted by Rick Hall ...snip... BUT, if you scan at 300 DPI and print it, and then lower the DPI to 75 and print it, you will notice a large difference.

Hi Rick,

Not if you print both versions at the same size. Try it! Say (pretend) that the 300 DPI shot prints out at a native 5 x 7. The 75 DPI version of the very same shot will print out at, what?? Poster size? But, if you print that 75 DPI out at the 5 x 7 size, it will be identical. Seriously, give it a try.



TwoRails

[Rick Hall]

If I lower the 300 DPI photo to 75 DPI, the photo will remain the same physical size bit with a lower resolution and this is the way it will print (at a lower resolution). Because you lower the resolution does not mean that the image changes physical size (unless of course you want it to). If what you say were true TwoRails, then there would be no need to ever scan at a higher rate than 75 DPI.

Reboot is correct when he says you will see no difference if you publish to the web, because the monitor will only display 72 DPI.

[TwoRails]

Hi Rick and Everybody,

If I lower the 300 DPI photo to 75 DPI, the photo will remain the same physical size bit with a lower resolution

1) Correct, if you change ONLY the DPI, the physical size of the photo stored on the hard drive does NOT change. That is evidence by itself that the DPI is just a setting, as nothing in the actual photo changes except for the DPI flag. You DO, however, change the "physical" dimensions, meaning the print size, of the photo; not the stored size on disk.

then there would be no need to ever scan at a higher rate than 75 DPI

2) Now, you're mixing oranges and apples. I'm not talking about scanning. Yes, scanning at a higher res gathers greater detail, but, again, that's not what I'm saying. I'm talking about After the image is stored on the hard drive.

2-a) Most digital cameras shot at 72 DPI because the photos are normally shown on a computer display, and that's a good match.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

I pulled up a photo, at random, in PSP 7 to get actual numbers. The photo is from a 5 MP camera -- at the native 72 DPI, it will PRINT at 17.8 inches X 11.8 inches. It's very important to note the print size. We'll call this photo, Photo A.

Now, copy the photo without changing anything. This second photo will be Photo B. Everything is identical at this point. Now, change ONLY the DPI. Change it to your 300 DPI example. The PRINT size is now 4.3 inches X 2.8 inches. All the same information is still in the photo.

Now print Photo B out at it's native size, which is 4.3 X 2.8 inches.

Now print Photo A out, but print it out at the same size as Photo B; 4.3 X 2.8 inches. All that info that's stored in a print size of 17.8 X 11.8 inches is now Crammed into the space of 4.3 X 2.8 inches. It's the same information that's in Photo B, and therefor the prints will be identical.

The reverse is also true. Print Photo A out at it's native size of 17.8 X 11.8 inches. Then print Photo B out at Photo A's size of 17.8 X 11.8. The prints will again be identical, as you are printing the same identical information.

Either way, the information (i.e.: the photo) is the same.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Reboot is correct when he says you will see no difference if you publish to the web, because the monitor will only display 72 DPI

Not really correct. If all you change is the DPI, you will see a major difference. Remember the Print size. Showing Photo B will be shown at 4.3 X 2.8 inches. This will fit on the screen. However, Photo A will Not fit on the screen (unless the viewer has a 21 or 22 inch monitor) because it will display at 17.8 X 11.8 inches!!! I'd call that a major difference. Especially if the viewer has only a 15 or 17 inch monitor.

Look at it this way. If every pixel was a molecule of air, we are talking about 1 cubic foot of air, or 1728 cubic inches. Whether I heat up and expand that cubic foot of air to fill a whole living room, or compress it into a very small size, I still have that very same cubic foot of all, and all the same information (molecules / pixels) are still present and accounted for.

Now, to get Photo A to show on screen at about the same size as Photo B, you now have to change the physical dimensions (i.e.: print size). This is where you'll loose quality as you'll be reducing the information stored on disk by 300 - 400 %! So, now, you have totally altered the photo by removing very much information, and this is when it get's grainy and such.

Going back to the cubic foot of air thing, when you reduce it's physical dimensions, you are now making that 1728 cubic inch chunk of air into only 4 cubic inches. You've lost a lot of air (molecules / pixels) !!!!

This is also the very reason you Don't shot Web photos at Hi-Res. You have to reduce the information you have. Anytime you reduce the information you have, the program extrapolates / guesses what information should fill in the gaps where information has been removed. But, if you shoot at the same size that you'll use on the Web page (or very close to it), then you'll have higher quality because All the information is still there.

HTH

TwoRails

[reboot]

Wait...if you read what I said, a picture that is 4"x5" at 300dpi and one that is also 4"x5" at 75 dpi will look exactly the same on the web/monitor, however, given the same two pictures printed on paper, you'll notice a big difference.
Of course there's a difference in filesize.

I pulled up a photo, at random, in PSP 7 to get actual numbers. The photo is from a 5 MP camera -- at the native 72 DPI, it will PRINT at 17.8 inches X 11.8 inches. It's very important to note the print size. We'll call this photo, Photo A. Now, copy the photo without changing anything. This second photo will be Photo B. Everything is identical at this point. Now, change ONLY the DPI. Change it to your 300 DPI example. The PRINT size is now 4.3 inches X 2.8 inches. All the same information is still in the photo. Now print Photo B out at it's native size, which is 4.3 X 2.8 inches. Now print Photo A out, but print it out at the same size as Photo B; 4.3 X 2.8 inches. All that info that's stored in a print size of 17.8 X 11.8 inches is now Crammed into the space of 4.3 X 2.8 inches. It's the same information that's in Photo B, and therefor the prints will be identical.

Isn't this backwards?

[TwoRails]

Hi reboot

I have to admit I was going with what Rick said you said. I did not go back up and re-read you post. Your post was:

If you scan a pic at 300dpi and copy it at 75dpi and put them both on the web, you will not be able to tell the difference

You didn't mention re-sizing it to the same 4 X 5 inch print size.


Let's try this. I took a photo and made it 300 DPI. I reduced the size of it to be able to attach it here but running the jpeg compression at a whopping 50%, and further had to reduce it's pixel size from a width of 1280 to 800. This will allow for faster download times, too.

1) So, the "original' (attached to this post) is:

300 DPI, a stored size of 59,816 bytes and print size of 2.67 X 1.8 inches.

2) The second post will have the same identical photo, but has: ( No other changes were made from photo #1 but the DPI setting.)

72 DPI, a stored size of 59,816, and print size of 11.1 X 7.4 inches

Note that the file size is the same, but the print size is very different.

3) The 3rd and final photo post has the same photo at 72 DPI, but the Print size was made the same size as the 300 DPI size. ( NO other changes were made from photo #2, just the print size.)

72 DPI, a stored size of 6,692, and a print size of 2.67 X 1.8 inches.

Notice the large drop in file size while having the same print size as the 300.

TwoRails

[TwoRails]

OK, here's the same shot as above, but at 72 instead of 300 DPI:

[TwoRails]

Now the same shot as #2 above, but with a reduced print size:

[TwoRails]

I think that part of the confusion is that I'm referring to the physical printed page. If shots 1 and 2 are printed out at the Same size, they will look identical, just as they do when viewed on a monitor. The same information is still present. However, as mentioned above, if the photo is reduced (either in pixels for the monitor, or print size for paper) then you loose quality because information is lost.

TwoRails

[TwoRails]

I got rushed yesterday and didn't wrap up too well.... so:

Hi reboot: Yes, I was agreeing with you.

Hi Dswissmiss: Did you get your questions answered??

Hi Rick: Did I clarify what I was saying about the printed (not screen) page?

TwoRails

[erucader]

If its for the web, go with 72 dpi otherwise it will take too much space.