nobody really wants to use Technology

[Byte 2.0]

To make my point. If we were to start using the currect Technology that we have alot of companies would go belly up. For example, we have the technology that is needed to produce clean power. With the use of solar panels and mirrors conbined with Dams and other totally clear sources, we could produce more power then this planet needs. however if the change was to be made in say as little as 10 years, major oil companies would go under. It is even possible that some power companies would not stay afloat.

So we get to hear the EPA going on and on about burning fossil fuels an how we are destoring the evironment. These companies that are afaird of going out of business should be retooling to compete in the new energy race that out technology is ready to start. They are basicly telling people 2 stop using fossil fuelz be increasing the price.

I don't know what the gas stations are paying for gas now, however sometime last summer I found a gas receipt on the ground where the gas station had paied 80 cent a gallon and that gas station was selling for 121.9 a gallon. 41.9 cent markup..I know about 10 cents was tax. that still leave 31.9 cent profit per gallon.

I would like to know what the gas stations are paying now.

We have the technology to switch to a near electric world without the use of fossil fuelz. I think we should be save the fossil fuels to put stuff in orbit. once in orbit we can use other types of fuel for interplanet travel to say Mars.


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byte@pcmech.com

MY icq number is 1356209
Some people hate computers.
Computer Bash 2000
Or maybe they took my advise...

[This message has been edited by byte (edited 06-22-2000).]

[bob]

It is a matter of cost. Right now oil is cheaper. There is lots of it too. It did not all come from fossels - most comes from trapped methane (natural gas). Some planets have methane atmospheres our methane is underground.

We will all be using oil as our main fuel for our lifetimes. The day it becomes to hard to get out of the ground is the day we switch to other forms of energy. By then we will need a lot more than solar power or dams could provide.

[Byte 2.0]

There are other opitions as well that will help...Currently Wind and the tide can also be used to generate electric power. Fussion is coming soon. Most likely in our lifetime.

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byte@pcmech.com

MY icq number is 1356209
Some people hate computers.
Computer Bash 2000
Or maybe they took my advise...

[StuartW]

A couple of points. In this country petrol (gas) is around $7 a gallon, of which 80% is tax.Our government were committed to raising the price each year to discourage use, and thus protect the environment. It has done no such thing.Pollution from vehicles is a very small percentage of the total pollutants pumped into the atmosphere.I have a background in Nuclear energy, and firmly think nuclear power is the way forward. Unfortunately, environmentalists have put the fear into everyone about nuclear power. The nuclear industry is far safer than conventional plants,but to the general public nuclear energy is the same as building atomic bombs.You are right,byte, when you touch on the economies. Too many jobs, and too much tax revenue is dependant on the oil industry - it is this which is stifling the adoption of alternative energy sources.

[bob]

It is just $1.50 here - including .20 tax

In the Midwest USA the price is almost $1 higher - they are screeming. Taxes are suspended on gas there. Part of the reason is a mandate to add alchol from corn to the gasoline.

At $7 a gallon it is time to grow some corn and make ethonal - profits would be high if they dont tax you.

You know what the USA thinks about excessive taxes...

I support Nuclear but the safety and waste costs are a bit high in the USA.

If we could get Fusion that would change the world and allow us to colonize into space.

[StuartW]

If someone found a way of making gas out of seawater, our government would tax seawater.

[bob]

I remember my history --- Some tea with your seawater?

The seaweed might be able to be made into alcohol - lol

[Byte 2.0]

Ok, don't label me a Redneck or Hillbilly, but here what we can to. Lets get our corn and sugar, with a few more items. Make our own Moonshine. Sell the Moonshine and take the money and buy gas. The gas is taxed so the government would still get their taxes. really it would be double taxed, because their would be taxes on the sugar...

[Toaster]

Here before me I have an older popular mechanics. Circa 1954. They were seeing individual home nuclear plants for power.
Technology huh?
We had to take a shovel to the remaining plants because we cant touch then for hundreds of thousands of years without glowing.
They invisioned "nuclear" powered cars and planes.
Next down the pipe will be "cold fusion" or "bathtub fusion".....gee..cant wait.
Some bozo out in the world is going to find out how to get water to burn..then...all our problems will be over...all over about 20 parsects of space that is.

[StuartW]

He Bob. Since you mention history,tea and seawater - didn't America get its own back by introducing us to that most dangerous,addictive and pernicious drink called coffee.I reckon with a little modification any vehicle can run on coffee. lol.
Must log off now and brew a nice refreshing cup of tea.

[bob]

Blame Spain or Portugal for coffee. Heard the rainforest containes many cures.

Coffee was the cure for English taxes - lol

There are other cures in the jungle - but to expensive for me

[Junkman]

It seems were working hard towards less fossil fuels for autos but the electric cars so far aren't there yet...I would definitely vote on solar/wind/ seawave type electric plants over nuclear...I still remember Chair-nobel and 3mile..I also live close to a nuclear facility being cleaned up now.
.
Here's one though,,all this coffee and tea drinking why not hydro-porcelain-urinal devices. .5 milliwat per flush..ding ding

[Xayd]

Actually I've looked it up in the US, in Louisiana anyways.

Of the buck twenty five or so you paid for gas there, about 55-60 cents was taxes. I've also heard satements by a couple of respected scientific types that a volcano eruption puts more harmful carbons in the atmosphere than every car that has ever been built.

Actually I heard a political type here in the US respond to that statement with "well, a volcano's carcinogens wouldn't get up high enough to damage the ozone". With such a stupid reply by that moron, I'll take the volcano/carbon thing as fact.

Gas is actually cheap, goverments are expensive.

Xayd

[bob]

Link for 1998 gas tax rates. .18 Federal and .20 state for Louisiana
http://www.lmoga.com/taxrates.htm

Guess we were both off by about the same amount - unless taxes went up since 1998 or link is wrong.

[figarowa]

I gotta say i do not agree that nuclear energy is the way to go, first off in the U.S. we are rapidly running out of space in all of our radioactive waste dumping grounds so of course the gov't started on the huge waste facility in what Nevada or New Mexico, but as far as i know it is not operational as of yet, so what are we gonna do with this waste that does in fact remain hazordous for a long long time...
I think that the current trend will soon blend in with hybrid cars, a small output engine/electric motor combo, these cars are usually powered by a highly efficient diesel engine along with batteries, the car regains energy on braking via a fly wheel...the only thing wrong that i see with this is that the world populatioin will be veerrrry hesitant to abandon what we have now...me included cuz i love the deep throaty sound of a small block V8...i think it will take a major impact such as the world oil supply to lose at least 50% of its resources and gas and oil prices become astronomical....

[bob]

Not sure if its true - heard it on the radio news station today - Ethanol can be produced in the US at a lower price than gas per gallon.

While I am unsure that a gallon of ethonal has the same energy per gallon as gasoline - blending it with gasoline should not increase the price of the gas in the near future.

If anyone has more info on ethanol and gasoline fuel blends I would be interested.

[Toaster]

Bob,
The numbers I quoted are aproximate. However, I`m certain that "gasoline" has a flash point of nearly 60 degrees below zero.
I`m also fairly certain that Alcohol has a much higher flash point of well into the 50`s ABOVE zero.
The remaing option for an alternate fuel would be hydrogen. Vehicles using this gas have been made and made safe but not for "end users" or mass production.
The problem with hydrogen is the fact that it`s quite explosive but this can be done via a "solid" fuel cell design.

[Toaster]

A real big problem with Alcohol type fuels is the flash point or the point at which the substance gives off a flammable vapor.
I seem to remember that Alcohol has a flash point of about 53 degrees (f) and gasoline has a flash point of nearly -60 degrees (f).
Unfortunately, gasoline is far far to handy for the need.

As far as Nuclear based alternatives, this is no alternative. It`s dangerous, unstable and prone to pitfalls of "big business".
Its strange, most of the Nuclear plant fuels will outlive humans by a factor of 4.
There currently is a "Honda" hybrid available now. It`s being sold at or below cost to build up support. Folks say 70MPG is an average.

[bob]

Quote///
"I seem to remember that Alcohol has a flash point of about 53 degrees (f) and gasoline has a flash point of nearly -60 degrees (f)."

Unclear on flash point. Is the - in "-60" a typo?

Kinda remember that the higher the Octane the lower the burning temperture needed to egnight the fuel.

[bob]

This covers it quite well
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/gasol.../preamble.html

[fredwest]

Hi guys,
Thank God we have no nuclear power here in Ireland. I live on the East coast and we get all the crap that Sellafield pumps into the Irish Sea.

BNFL (British Nuclear Fuels LTD) try to make things ok with nice ads etc. But in reality this particular power station has a DIABOLICAL record when it come to 'ACCIDENTAL discharges'.

Our Government here is supposed to be FINALLY doing something about this. I won't be holding my breath on this however....not with the track record.....

CLOSE SELLAFIELD........IT'S UNSAFE, UNETHICAL AND UNTRUSTWORTHY!

Back in the 50's & 60's nuclear power was seen as 'the way forward'. Today it's a just a timebomb.....it not a matter of if...but when!

Personally I don't want to be anywhere NEAR Sellafield when it goes up!

Just my personal opinion on the 'nuclear thing'.


Yours

Declan (aka fredwest)

[This message has been edited by fredwest (edited 06-27-2000).]

[bob]

I once lived in northern california near a nuke plant. My electric bill was $5 a month.

I was bribed I guess - still see nuke power as a good thing.

I think most electricity comes from burning coal - not to good for the environment either.

Details to follow in my manifesto.

[Xayd]

You're right Bob, we had a local tax of about 7 or 8 cents on gas as well, so that by your guide made it 45-50, not 55-60.

Still, though. At that time gas was around a buck a gallon. So a little under half was tax, a little over half was gas.

Maybe it just comes with being a 23 year old revolutionary minded jerk, but why, I wonder, don't folks just band together. For instance, get the Fortune500 companies to announce and sign a petition to halt all income tax payments to the feds, as well as bar admission to all company owned property by any agent of the US government.

What could they do? It's not like the feds could get away with sending armed officers to collect taxes from someone unwilling to pay. Well, they might be able to pull that on you or me, but not on 500 major companies.

We have this situation because we created it for ourselves. People died so you could vote, folks. If you don't educate yourselves and vote, you don't deserve to live here in my book.

Xayd

[Eaglefeather]

We have ethanol or "cornygas" here in Ontario, and is available at many of our service stations. It sells for roughly the same price as regular gas. I used it in my Ford F150 with a 350. Did not notice any change in performance at all. I used it simply because it was a penny or two cheaper per ltr than gas. From the info I've read it burns cleaner than gas and helps prolong engine life. Wish I still had one of those government propaganda leaflets they passed out to convince us to use the ethanol. Seems to me they said it did everything but wash the dishes.

If our car burned regular fuel I would probably use the ethanol in it as well. For the average family travel requirements it would serve the purpose. But I do think they are over charging on the price.

My 3 cents.

Cheers
Eaglefeather



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My favourite hobby, it seems to me,
Is crashing my PC.

Eaglefeather

[glc]

You will get less gas mileage on ethanol blended fuel. Something to consider - your end cost may be more instead of less.

[bob]

How much less. Would be good to know. I always buy regular gas - the car manual says it is best for my truck.

[Junkman]

I just heard this weekend that in Cinncinati ohio they are fueling the buss service with a blend of diesel and 20% used cooking oil.
Seems to be working ok.
I have heard about all kinds of gadgets but none that I know for sure work,,has anyone ever heard of the gas line IONIZER ?

[glc]

bob - I lose about 10% gas mileage on 10% ethanol blend. Same deal with MTBE, but they got rid of that nasty stuff here several years ago. I use 87 octane regardless - my Ford 3.0 V6 is happy on it.

[This message has been edited by glc (edited 07-11-2000).]

[bob]

I lose about 10% gas mileage on 10% ethanol

That is a wash. Seems it is not worth using in your car.

[M. A. Dockter]

I've also heard that the aditives in Gasahol can eat away at those lovely little rubber rings in older Carbarators, and even newer cars...

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M. A. Dockter
Forum Administrator
mdockter@pcmech.com
http://www.pcmech.com/dockter.htm