Windows 98 SE - switching from onboard graphics to graphics card?

[JTH]

Hi, I'm setting up an old business computer as a low-end home desktop for a friend of mine. I installed Windows 98 SE but found that with the onboard graphics I could only run 2 or 16 colours and 640 x 480 resolution. This meant that I couldn't run any games.

I bought an Nvidia m64 32mb PCI card on Ebay (the mobo has no AGP slots) and hooked it up today. I installed the drivers from the Nvidia website and now when I go into properties I get a picture of two "monitors" instead of one and a choice of two displays (the onboard or the graphics card). I select the graphics card and see "High Colour (16 bit)", which is what I want, but when I select it I can't apply, it doesn't seem to make a difference. I then got an error saying something like that monitor 1 has to be at least 256 colours or monitor 2 won't work. How can I either disable the onboard graphics or permenantly select the graphics card? Am I missing something in BIOS?

Thanks in advance for any help, JTH

P.S. I was messing with themes and now Windows is stuck on a theme and when I select "Windows default" it stays on that theme!! I've even tried re-installing Windows and it doesn't fix it! Any help with that too?

[PCKlutz]

It sounds like you did not defeat the onboard video in your BIOS.

[JTH]

How do I do that?

[PCKlutz]

When you first turn your pc on, go into BIOS by hitting del, or esc or one of the F keys. Either a message is on the monitor to tell you which key, or consult your motherboard's manual. Once in BIOS you go to configuration setup menu and look for the on/off toggle for the onboard video.

[JTH]

I've gone through it but there's no direct "on and off" switches.

[Quintz]

do you know what motherboard and/or bios that your running?

[RKC]

There are many boards that you have to change a jumper setting to disable the on board video. Look for the location in your manual or go to the m/b manufacurer website to download it to see where it might be.

[tacoeater]

are you sure that you loaded drivers for the specific onboard video? if you did not do that then you will not get more than 16 colors. then add another adapter and it's no wonder you are locking up.
what brand of computer is this old business computer?
is there a model number on the front or back?
if you research this a bit more you may not need the nvidia card.

[JTH]

I've looked thoroughly but can't seem to see any manufacturer markings on the motherboard. When it powers up, however, American Megatrends appears in the corner, followed by a date (09/02/2000). The BIOS is called Amibios.

Are jumpers little switches on the mobo itself? I've never had to adjust them before so am kind of at a lost with what to do. I don't see any switches or moveable items on the mobo but maybe I'm looking for the wrong thing. There's a "primary display" option in BIOS: "VGA/EGA" just uses the onboard graphics, while the "CGA40x25" & "CGA80x25", "Mono" and "Absent" settings don't appear to work.

Thanks for any help, JTH

[RKC]

The jumpers are three pins usually located near the VGA port and use little plastic, three holed "thingys" that cover two of the pins. If you see these pins, move the plastic jumper over one pin to cover the other pins which should now disable the on board VGA graphics. Hope I made this understandable for you to know what I am talking about.

[needhelp]

Try and identify your motherboard and then you should be able to download the drivers for the onboard graphics. You will only get the graphics you are getting until you install the drivers for the onboard graphic.
Go here and download "Fresh diagnose tool " and you will be able to identify your mobo. good luck.
http://www.freshdevices.com/downfiles.html

[stylin19]

you could try going into "device manager" and see if you can disable the onboard there.

[JTH]

I downloaded what I think are the onboard graphics drivers (http://www.ami.com/support/productsubmit.cfm?prodid=146). I can't be sure because the "Diagnose" program said the mobo name was "440bx", which is in fact the chipset. Anyways, I got the following error for the 98, 98 SE and ME drivers on two PC's when I try to open them:

"WinZip Self-Extractor header corrupt. Possible cause: bad disk or file transfer error"

How do I either get the right drivers and set up the onboard graphics once and for all or select the Nvidia PCI card as my primary display? I've tried changing the red jumpers that you've described beside the empty VGA (?) slot but it didn't change anything. Maybe I'm putting them in the wrong comination?

Thanks for all the help so far, JTH

[GaryRouth]

Hi JTH

See if you can post the Bios ID string that displays when your computer starts (you can press the Pause key on your keyboard to pause the screen - then after copying the string, press any other key to resume booting).

We can then try a Google search to see what motherboard make/model that string belongs to. [Of course, you can also try this yourself]. Then we'll need to hunt down a manual for the board [Google comes in handy for that, too!].
_________

If you'd rather not have to worry about the onboard at all, you can skip the search & try stylin19's suggestion: go into Device Manager, go to Display Adapters - here you should see two listed. One should be your nVidia card, and the other, your onboard, probably functioning as "Standard VGA". Right click on the Standard VGA item, select properties, and select "Disable ....". You will see a red X beside the device in Device Manager from then on, but your system should then be able to use the nVidia as the primary adapter. [Might take a reboot to be able to adjust things in the nVidia driver - then you should be OK]
. . . Gary

[p.s. ...I followed the link you posted for the drivers you'd tried for the onboard - and the manual listed in that link is for a motherboard identified as the "Olympus 2" - which is an Intel 815 chipset - while your board might be a BX, as the utility reported - definitely remove (uninstall) those drivers before trying to update any others]

[JTH]

Gary, firstly thanks for the help!

I just tried disabling the "standard VGA" display device in Device Manager but there's no option to. Where there is a checkbox in the Nvidia dialog box saying "disable in this hardware profile", there is no such option on the onboard graphics dialog box. When I plug the monitor into the Nvidia port while running Windows, I get a message saying "If you can read this, Windows has successfully installed the display drivers. Go to display and adjust settings to start using this card" or something like that.

As for the other option, the pause button doesn't seem to freeze the screen as its booting? Also, Is it the really long number at the bottom of the screen I should be taking note of? Finally, I have a new problem (more of an annoyance really) that Windows keeps re-detecting and installing my Plug and Play monitor every single time I restart.

[JTH]

Just tried the number on the bottom of the screen but it didn't turn up anything on Google:

62-0702-000000-00101111-071595-440BX-1440BX00-H

[GaryRouth]

It's been awhile since I had to hunt Bios IDs, so perhaps it's listed closer to the top (! oops! --> since you have an intel 440BX chipset, the first 5 characters should start 2A69K - then the next two characters tell you who made it: for example, "S2" would be a Soyo board).

It turns out that AMI has a nifty little utility for help identifying boards that have their bios. You can download it from http://www.ami.com/support/mbid.cfm (you have to agree to their download agreement - which is safe to do [it pretty much just says that you won't try to resell it or post it somewhere without their permission, and won't sue the Dickens out of them if it doesn't help ] ) . . . if I had seen that utility earlier, I could've saved you some time.

Most boards with onboard graphics and an AMI Bios have a mention in their "Intergrated Peripherals" menu for the onboard graphics. You might try hunting through the Bios again just to see. You may want to change two settings: changing the "Init Display" (for Initial Display - which graphics adapter to start with) and set that to "PCI", and also look to change any "Onboard Video" (if you can find a mention - it's probably an ATi onboard - usually fairly serviceable).

It's kind of funny, but it might be that if we can't disable the onboard graphics in the Bios, we might have to find and install the right drivers, and then disable them!
___________
Once you get a motherboard manual, you'll want to check the jumper settings, especially since you moved one [if you get a magnifying glass, you might find info about that jumper silkscreened onto the top surface of the motherboard].
___________
Not sure why your POST didn't pause - are you using a regular AT or ps/2 keyboard (or a USB?)... often, unless the USB keyboard ("USB Legacy...") is enabled in the Bios, it won't work until Windows starts up.
___________
I think the re-detecting of the monitor will stop once the onboard situation is fixed.

Keeping you busy, huh
. . . Gary

[JTH]

Gary,

Thanks again for all the imput. The monitor thing seems to have sorted itself out, so thats one problem addressed. I checked in "Integrated Peripherals" again but couldn't find anything to do with onboard display or graphics, other then the option from another menu that I've mentioned in an above post that didn't make a difference when changed ("primary display: absent, mono, VGA/EGA, CGA40x25, CGA 80x25").

I ran that program you linked to me. It identified an AMIBIOS system and gave plenty of data on the BIOS model itself but couldn't identify the motherboard maunfacturer part of the string (which was all 0's). It gave the following:

SMBIOS Manufacturer: Portwell Inc.
Model Number: 440BX

Motherboard Manufacturer: 0000 Code not found in man.dat file

[GaryRouth]

. . . I'm beginning to wonder if that was a 'hacked' Bios. . . [an unofficial version modified to run a particular application better - no so uncommon among gamers]

Can you adjust your Display Properties with the nVidia driver yet? If so, you might be able to just leave the onboard alone.

The "Primary Display" Bios setting you found will want to be set to VGA/EGA (all those other settings are for even older modes). Sounds like you didn't see anything mentioning "Initial Display" and offering to choose between onboard or PCI. . .

Tell you what, if you still need to get the onboard going (even if only to disable it) - take another look at the motherboard's chips, and see if the largest one (other than the main cpu) is uncovered and has any markings. We might be able to tell what it is from the markings on the chip. It might say S3, for example, if it's a Trio/64, or ATi, if it's a Rage IIC perhaps, ...that sort of thing... there are generic drivers that might do the trick.
. . . Gary

[JTH]

I found the following markings:

Dallas
CHIPS
Inbound W83977ATF-AW
ICS
MY06BB

I also found a tiny set of four two-way switches that I hadn't noticed before. They are numbered 1-4 and on one side say "NO". Three were pointed away from "NO", but the last one was pointed to "NO". I figured that these might control different onboard functions on the mobo so I tried various different combinations but they didn't seem to make any difference at all (except for one ocassion when the colours in Windows were a bit off - but this fixed itself on a reboot).

[GaryRouth]

I wouldn't recommend changing any motherboard jumpers without either a manual or the settings silkscreened onto the board. If you accidentally change a voltage or timing setting, something can burn up in a hurry.

The InBond chip you found looks like an I/O controller chip (a part of the motherboards "onboard" features). The chip for the video would likely be a bit larger - and since your chipset is an Intel BX, I'm still guessing it's either an S3 or and Ati on there somewhere.

I've assumed all along that you probably don't have any of the original disks for this PC - or documents either - But if you can find anything at all - that might do. You said this was a business PC - was it a generic "white box" PC? or does it sport make/model markings anywhere?

[Might try inspecting the motherboard one more time, perhaps with a flashlight, and move any ribbon cables out of the way long enough to see what's underneath ]

Rather like an Easter Egg Hunt on the 4th of July
. . . Gary

[JTH]

No unfortunately I have no documentation whatsoever. I don't even have box for this, a local firm went into liquidation and I came into the possession of two of these.

I just had a recheck and I found a small chip that I hadn't noticed before called Pulse and two Intel chips (one called AGPset, the other PCIset). The port where the monitor is plugged into is called Foxconn. Last week I tried installing XP, even if it would run slowly, to see if it would at least give proper resolution. XP didn't work but during the installation screen I could have sworn there were more then 16 colours (there were good graphics), so obviously even the onboard is capable - 98 seems to be just limiting it.

Thanks again, JTH

[GaryRouth]

It's possible that the onboard video is hidden underneath a heatsink. . .

Is your processor a Slot 1? Does the motherboard look anything like this one?
http://support.tangent.com/hardware/...rd/mbx-009.htm

The most common onboard video chips that I remember being paired with the BX were those from Ati (various versions of their Rage IIC, Rage 3D, Rage Pro) and S3 (various versions of their Trio line, with the Trio 64 fairly popular). But some boards also had things like Matrox chips - and if old enough, perhaps even Cirrus Logic.
______________

Tell you what, let's try another tool: if the system is new enough (PII or Celeron or higher) to run an older version of SiSoft Sandra's tools (the latest version would probably be too much for it) it might be able to identify the video chipset.
[....this is assuming that the tool you tried earlier wasn't able to identify the video chip....] You can look for a SiSoft Sandra download over at http://www.sisoftware.co.uk Check the Minimum System Requirements before deciding on a version.

Best of luck
. . . Gary

[p.s. ...yes, the XP installation screens look pretty good, even when only displayed in 16 colors]

[JTH]

Gary, this is a Slot 1 board running a Pentium III processor at 700mhz. Because it is an AT board, half of it is standing vertical, half horizontal, if you know what I mean. It makes a kind of an 'L' shape. I can send you a pic if you want.

I'm downloading that SiSoft tool now, I'll let you know what happens

[GaryRouth]

You should be fine with the latest Sandra since the cpu is a 700mhz PIII. You might have to download and install the MDAC 2.7 or newer, in case you get an error message during installation. You can grab MDAC at http://www.microsoft.com/data/

Hope this one clears up the mystery
. . . Gary

[INR]

I think the trouble is that you have to disable the onboard
video FIRST (do not install any drivers yet).
disable the onboard video, set BIOS to PCI as primary (initial)
display, shut down physically install PCI vid card, reboot and let windows detect the new vid card...(will boot using standard VGA, if you have uninstalled it should reinstall standard VGA then detect the new card pop in the install disk with the new vid card drivers....
I spent a week learning the hard way how to disable the onboard vid on my sons comp and install a PCI vid card....and that's the trouble I had....the onboard has to be disabled first,
then put the new card in and install drivers...
and it worked 1st time when I did it thaat way...that is after
I booted to a black screen because I put the monitor cable
back on the ONBOARD vid connector !! did a quick swap hooking the monitor to the pci vid card just in time to see
windows loading (I know you're not supposed to do a hot swap...)

[JTH]

INR, thanks for the suggestion but there is no "IDE" option in Primary Display so I couldn't get it to work!

JTH

[JTH]

Also, GaryRouth, I got an error when I go into the "Display" selection of that Sandra program (everything else checks out except for that - mobo manufacturer name: Portwell Inc. model: 440bx again!)

[JTH]

I just ran S3's DOS program for computers that have onboard S3 graphics from before 1999. It said that it "Found what appears to be a Chips and Technology chip (dev #10, bus #0)". What does this mean and where can I get the drivers for my onboard graphics do you know?

[GaryRouth]

You know, JTH, you did mention that these were business computers: by any chance is that AT motherboard in a small case? All the references I've found for Portwell Inc. are to a manufacturer who specializes in "Single Board Computers" [they are sort of the "flex" style, used in the small cases about the size of a large Websters Dictionary - often standing upright (also sometimes called "Book" cases). On these boards, along one side there is a line of contacts (just like on your add-in AGP or PCI cards, for example) that slips into a slot in the custom designed case. Take a look at this link, which should bring up a .pdf (Adobe format - I'm hoping you have the Adobe Acrobat Reader on your computer - it's a free download over a adobe.com if you don't) page full of such boards = there are a couple that look like they might be the one you have. Models Robo-608, Robo-668, & Robo-698. The common graphics chip for all three is the Chips & Technologies 69000.

You could try a generic driver such as this one http://www.asiliant.com/sw/W98600.EXE

The various Portwell sites I looked at didn't help much with driver downloads, but I don't think it should hurt to try a generic driver.
. . . Gary