Question on Reinstalling Windows over itself ??

[Snake420]

I'm following an old post here, on reinstalling Win98SE over top of itself, from GaryRouth, but....
I have a Question .......
I've had a persistent problem, that NOONE has been able to fix thus far, at 6 different Forums....so I'm following through on most of their suggestions, to reinstall Windows over top of itself...so, here goes.......
My Norton protection is disabled, and I'm going to reinstall Win98 over top of itself. I am going about it by the faster way, by typing in from COMMAND: SETUP /P F
I was told this replaces the bad areas of my Win98, rather than doing a full reinstall over top.
Here's my question.......when it gets into the Setup, it asks me where I want my CAB Files to go ? I was told not to send them to C:\Windows.000 , but use Other, and on the next screen type in C:\Windows . Yes ? .....but, My existing Win98 CABS are in C:\Win98 on my system. What should I do ??

[digitalfreedom64]

Well I guess normally the root folder is C:\windows and they are directing you to put the cab files in your root folder. From what you're saying I gather that your root is C:\Win98 ? instead of C:\Windows. So i'm guessing you should put em there.
I think I'm right about that, i'm a little rusty with win 98.

[Snake420]

Yes...my root is C:\Win98 , where my existing CABS are.
Would sending my new setup files to the same folder cause me problems, OR...Is it fixing existing problems in that folder ?? It's ALL New to me. I just don't want doing the wrong thing to cause a conflict with the new and old.

[digitalfreedom64]

I believe I've heard of people using this method before. I never did it though, I always just did a full over the top install. So i guess in the respect that i've heard of it and never done i'm kinda new to it, but I hate to go ahead and tell you to do it and it be wrong. You may want for someone else to respond, there are other people that are more knowledgable about win98 than I.

[GaryRouth]

Hi Snake420

Strangely enough, in all the reinstalls I've done personally, I've always preferred doing the complete over-the-top - so I'm not familiar with a prompt that asks where the .cabs should go = Are you sure that's the exact wording? In the full reinstall, Setup asks where to install Windows (the system files), and usually suggests C:\Windows.000 if it detects files already present. We recommend installing to C:\Windows, which will refresh the system files in the usual place. [If you do install to Windows.000, or to Win98, you will end up with two installations of Windows on the hard drive - Hal has a thread in Tips & Tricks on how to undo that situation http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=38140 ]

I think this prompt *should* be the same in the setup /p f --- so I'd recommend installing to C:\Windows. glc or Hal have used that particular procedure many more times than I have, and can give you a definite answer. Should you do the full reinstall, it's definitely C:\Windows.

I think that what might be confusing a little in your case is that you have the .cab files stored on your hard drive in C:\Win98 - these are the compressed versions of the system files. When Setup installs them to C:\Windows, it extracts them to their normal sizes & names. You can actually store those .cab files in a folder called anything you want C:\Pretty Nice Old OS -- or anything. Many OEM builders put them in C:\Windows\Options\Cabs, just to make it easy for later repairs to find them.

Does this clear things up?
. . . Gary

[glc]

Run setup from c:\win98 if that's where your cabs are - and install Windows to c:\windows if that's where Windows is now. It's not asking where to send the cabs, it's asking where to install Windows. I'd advise you uninstall Norton before you install over the top, then reinstall Norton when you are done.

[Snake420]

Thanks guys,
Sorry about the "where to send the CAB files" thing. Wrong wording on my part. I mean "where to send installation". The masses say C:\Windows....like you mentioned. Thanks.
Yes...I'm going to give it a shot at doing the SETUP /P F install, from the harddrive, to see if that solves my problem. Should be "no harm done", if that does not work. If it does not, then I'll just go again and do a full reinstall over top.
Unfortunately, with my Norton, I cannot uninstall before, and reinstall when done, due to the fact that a friend installed Norton for me, last year, and I do not have the disc. My only option now is to just disable. Do you think that is going to be a Problem for me ? Sure don't need anymore of those. I'm disabling it through the startup tab in System Configuration Utility. Should I do more....of course with what I DO have ?
Other than that.....I think everything should work out great. Crossing Fingers !
Thanks again.............Snake420.

[glc]

I would still uninstall it, then when things are stabilized, install AVG Free. Norton has a huge footprint, especially 2004 and 2005 - 2003 isn't too bad, and 2002 and earlier are no longer effective in finding viruses.

[Snake420]

OK...I'm about ready to pull my hair out.
For some reason, I cannot figure out how to get started on my reinstall overtop.
Here's the play by play. ---> I'm restarting, with my CD-ROM Win98SE CD.
When it comes to the start menu, I'm selecting boot-up "with CD-ROM support"....then renaming the win.com file win.bak
then, because I have Win98 already on my hardrive, I'm trying to type in C:\Win98 or \Win98 or Win98 ...nothing is getting me to my previously installed files, already on my harddrive. Keeps reading Bad Command !!
What do I do ?? I'm trying to reinstall my Win98SE overtop from my existing files on my harddrive.
Can you give me EXACT directions on how to do a reinstall overtop of my existing Windows 98SE please ?
My CABS, etc. are in C:\Win98, and I also have the CD-ROM for Win98SE.

[edfair]

The windows files you will install come from the .cab files on the CDROM.
They are located at drive:\win98 but there is no reason for you to need to know that or to be able to tell the installer that. Setup is at the root of the CD, although there is another with the .cab files.

Matter of booting with CD support if you want to use the floppy, move to the CD , setup , and tell it to put it in c:\windows. You could also do it with the CD alone if your system allows it in boot order.

I'm not sure of the file replacement sequence when you selective replace stuff. I've generally just cranked it up with plain setup and let it run.

I think Gary also did a writeup with more extensive info than a thread somewhere here.

[glc]

Boot with the CD. When you get to an A prompt, type the following, with an enter after each:

c:
cd win98
setup /p f

If you get an error, they probably left the setup.exe out of the cab directory. If this is the case, do the same but substitute the letter of the CD drive for C - it's probably E, and this will reinstall from the CD.

[Snake420]

Well....I went ahead and did the complete reinstall over top of Windows, using SETUP, rather than SETUP /P F. I uninstalled all of my Symantec Norton SystemWorks, Antivirus, and Utilities, and then downloaded a free version of Avast Antivirus, which I setup after my reinstall of Windows.
Since the reinstall, most things seem to be working better, and faster, but it seems like the same ole' problem is still there. So, I'm back to try to possibly find a way STILL to get a handle on it.
Since you guys really do not know what my original problem was...Here goes (It's going to be long...sorry). :

To start, I have tried many other forums, and done just about everything with them over the past 10 days.
My Problem is......When I open and close programs on my system (Win98SE, IE6, 56K Modem, 256 MB, on a AMD Duron Processor 656Mhz) I will click on an icon, or program, and it will hesitate to react, then will open slowly, and in sections. The same is also when closing the programs. I have ran my Defrag, Optimizer (both on Win98, and my Norton systems), ran Norton Antivirus (nothing), Housecall online scan (nothing), my "Ad-aware 6", my "Spybot", downloaded "CWShredder", and from the results I only found 3 spyware/adware problems and removed them (2 were new. SHAgent was not. That one was repetitive, but now completely gone from my system....due to finding it on "Panda Activescan" online scan. They found NO viruses, but found 16 spyware/adware problems. Since they do not disinfect these problems, I went in to my system and Deleted them all manually, except 2 problems, which only read "Windows Registry", on both, which I would have to say is very nonspecific, so I had to leave those. Anyway, no viruses, and spyware/adware is pretty much cleaned up. I even downloaded a free registry cleaner "Easy Cleaner", and cleaned my registry of invalid entries. I have done a Cleanboot, checked my Startup programs (ok), tried a Safe boot (which seems to be without the problem), but has its obvious problem (cannot run on that all the time). I have also ran a check on my System Monitor, to see what it says......some other things I tried, but cannot think of right off hand.
Anyway....My system now seems to be running better, and faster, but..... ......Still I have the same problem with the reaction time on clicking on programs, from them opening to closing very slowly, and in sections, rather than all-at-once closing (like they should). Also, a couple other things I noticed, when I moved some Icons on my Desktop, they Also would take time to move, and leave like a black trace or shadow behind, then it would disappear....they too were reacting very slowly ! The second, is when I am loading programs, it effects other programs already loaded (ie. music will skip, Desktop Icons will flicker in and out, windows will pause....and sometimes, if I have a few things going on, my computer will freeze up, as if the Memory had all been used up, or something).
I also have gone into SYSEDIT, and maximized my memory use through Vcache..........nothing is working for me.
It's not a major problem (YET), but these kinda things usually end up that way, if ignored.
Most sites have pretty much gave up on me, and told me to dump my system, and reinstall..... I CANNOT dump my system ! It is far too much work, and utterly a pain, because I'll have to save everything, and something always gets lost in the shuffle.
Being on the internet also seems to be effected, mostly when I have a few windows open at the same time, and maybe running some applications (Yahoo Messenger, WinAmp)...thing sometimes will freeze up, causing me to have to hot Ctrl-Alt-Del, and ending task on the application, or window not responding, to unfreeze things (these even get a delayed reaction - getting a popup window saying "not responding. Maybe waiting for you, etc." until I click "End Task" on that). Again, seeming like my resources are all used up. BUT....I have also downloaded a MemoryTest, and that reads everything as being good. My Performance tab, on System Properties (this second) reads 56% free.
I am completely stumped. What maybe going on...anyone ??
I'm sure we will run into somemore suggestions that I have already tried, but I guess we'll see.
(Told you it was long).
Can someone Help me to resolve this Problem please ?? .....Thanks,Snake420.

[edfair]

Gut instinct would be that you have some video problem, something isn't transferring there, or not being released immediately when finished. You might want to download and install the latest drivers for the video.

[glc]

Ad-Aware 6 is obsolete. Get 1.05 SE, and make sure your Spybot is 1.3. Read the sticky thread in the Security forum, then you may post a HijackThis log.

[digitalfreedom64]

Do as glc said, you may want to check to see if you have up to date drivers for your video as well. May not be the whole problem but it could be causing part. You really should check out the thread as gkc said and make sure you have the newest versions of spybot and adaware.

[Snake420]

I downloaded all the updates for Spybot 1.3, and I downloaded the newer version of Ad-Aware SE, and did the same. Ran them, and wound up with 45 entries for spyware/adware. Glad you guys told me to check on that. BUT....still seems to be the same with the problem ! Pipes are all getting a good cleaning in the process of doing all this, if anything, ah !?
Anyway.....you requested a HiJack log, after all that, so here she is :

[glc]

The log is clean of malware, but you do have some items that could possibly be causing issues - the multimedia stuff, you have a multimedia task launcher running - Juno is a known heavy user of Java - IE6 can be problematic in Win98 - Lexmark utilities - that kind of stuff. Have you considered an upgrade to Win2000 or XP?

[Snake420]

Have not really though about upgrading to either, ecspecially XP, just heard too many things wrong with that upgrade from people I know, much less the rest of the free world. Never really had anything Major go wrong with 98, but yes, eventually (maybe once they get all the bugs out on the newer versions), I'll have to upgrade.
Now about the video driver...checked into that, and it read that all was good, but just to satisfy myself, I ran the update, said I had the best driver for my system, and then used my ATI CD, to reinstall the same driver, to refresh. Which ATI, I believe is the media you were refering to running, but it should not be...I disabled all of its components in Startup.
I was thinking though, my very first problem (the reason I started on these forums), besides the slow reactions, was my screen at the bottom rolls up, after I've been on a little while, and it'll flip up and down (good one second, then roll up - only just above the task bar - over and over again until i get annoyed with it). Initially, I was told to shut down, then unplug my video cord, plug in, and repeat a few times, because of possible oxidation buildup. It seemed to work for a little bit, but has been doing it again recent, even after I repeated those steps again. I have had that problem for about 5 months. When it first started, I thought maybe my monitor was going bad. Do you think that this may be a VIDEO CARD problem, and is also related to THIS problem ??
I guess that could explain it all in one shot. Have to maybe check that out. Hate to buy a new one though, and I still have the problem. What do you think ? Anyway to check this ? ....Or do do you have another idea maybe ?
Thanks for the help.

[GaryRouth]

Hi again

Sorry for the long delay, I'm away on vacation (one with not much time for computers). . .

If you can try another monitor, that should help narrow down what's causing your video problems. I'd imagine you should leave the vcache settings at their defaults, though, since 256mb of ram shouldn't require anything special from Win98. It should run well on that amount.

But I'd recommend downloading version 7 of AVG (like glc recommended). It's the most recent, and it will be easier on your system than avast (and much easier than Norton). While you're at the AVG site, download the manual, too: it's handy for setting up the email scanning.

I love avast! for WinXP computers that have fast processors and lots of memory: but it's Very Demanding. It might be even more demanding than Norton in some ways. Just to see, I tried avast! on a Win98 test machine around the Christmas holidays last year, and it just brought anything online to it's knees. Pages crawled onto the screen. It was like travelling back in time to a 28k connection (or worse). avast! starts up to six or seven background processes - so you can bet that it's a problem for the Win9x system resource usage.

So, try another monitor just to rule out a bad tube - and try AVG. See if that helps.
[Of course, download AVG before uninstalling avast! Then you can uninstall avast! and install AVG while unplugged from the Internet (and any local networks).

Best of luck
. . . Gary

[P.S ... another test for your video problem: start the computer in Safe Mode. See if the video problems disappear (since Safe Mode only uses the Standard VGA driver) ... then you can suspect driver problems]

[Snake420]

Hello.
Thought I would drop in and give an update on my situation. Everything seems to be fine now. Why ?....who knows.
I reinstalled my Windows over top once again, because installation ran slow the first time, with a couple stops. I just wanted to make sure everything was reinstalled properly. I also uninstalled Norton SystemWorks, Antivirus, and Utilities. Installed AVG Free Edition, in its place. Uninstalled a few programs that were not being used by me, and just being resource hogs. Ran my Antivirus with updates, Registry Cleaner, Spybot, Ad-Aware, ran a IE Repair, Registry Repair, Disc Scan, and Defrag.
Nothing really substantial came up in any of the scans, but then again, I guess you never know just what may be the bug.
My problem with the screen rolling up slightly, at the bottom, is still there, and I guess it probably will be until I get a chance to try another video card and another monitor, to see if that makes any difference. I know someone who I can check that with.
Anyway, now everything else seems to be fine, and running smoothly. Thanks. It was a learning experience. I know a lot more about keeping my system clean now, and it is running better, and faster now. Thank You...Snake420.

[GaryRouth]

Glad to hear of your success with system response.

Based on your recent clean-up & software changes, I'm going to go with a low-system resources problem as the cause of your sluggishness (along with the spyware = which added to that exact problem). You'll have to continue to monitor your System Resource usage from time-to-time, since you don't want to have to run at 56% on the Perfomance tab = see if you can keep things up above 75%. If you start up near 90%, and then want to play a resource-intensive game, you can check that Performance tab before you start the game. If it's under 70%, you can try a system restart (as normal, throught the Start/Shutdown menu), and that should put you back up to your near 90%. For some background reading on the Win9x system resource usage, and how to manage things over the long-term, see the excellent articles over at pacs portal ( http://www.pacs-portal.co.uk/startup_index.htm )

This type of system resources issue doesn't happen in the WinNT/2000/XP family of Windows [which is a main reason they get recommended for computer users who need to run a lot of programs at the same time]. If you do decide on XP, things will go better with 512mb total RAM, it might be sluggish with only 256mb. Win2000 should be fine with 256mb. Both of those systems are fairly expensive, so even though Win9x requires more maintenance to assure good performance, it's still quite cost-effective (and with Win98se = still quite compatible with many recent programs).

My guess for your video problem is that it's hardware. My first suspect would be the monitor. I haven't seen a card manage that particular trick yet [but you could be the first!]

Best of luck
. . . Gary