Pagefile tweaking

[thodges5]

I've read some things recently that suggest running the pagefile.sys on a non system partition as well as making the min & max the same size. Has anyone experiemented with this and to what benefit? What is the optimum size of a pagefile? I am currently using Total RAM x 1.5.

Thanks,

TH

[mosquito]

Memory x 1.5 is a good size. There is a performance benefit when you put the pagefile on another disk. Don't know about partitioh.

[thodges5]

In my case, I actually do have it on another drive. I've had it this way since day one of the install, so I don't know how it runs otherwise.

[Hpro]

If you like to have the fastest Access of Win2k then this formula will sure give you what you don't expect..

Min size = half of memory
Max size = Full amount of memory ..

EXAMPLE RAM 128 Mb
Min Page File Size = 64Mb
Max Page File Size = 128 Mb

This will speed up following operations :
Boot to windows - Defrag - opening programs - internet etc..

If the Page file has been found to small by windows when you are using several programs at one time - then Win2K will tell you so and resize the Pagefile to what ever it finds it will be enough this without to have to restart the machine ... and only for the time beeing .. after the next restart you settings will be invoked again..

[Omletteboy]

Hpro, where did you come up with that formula of yours for swapfile? Cuz usually the standard is the 1.5x - 2x of ram.

[WickedLittleSlaveBoy]

I don't agree with HPro's formula either, but wasn't the old MS formula was actual size plus 12M, and that was just for debugging purposes.

either way, that's fine for a server, but it's ridiculous to have a 384-512M paging file on a workstation with 256M RAM, it's almost as bad to have a 192-256M paging file for a 128M system.

as physical RAM sizes rise, paging is less likely, so the formula has to be adjusted. the hardset 1.5-2.0 is ridiculous as physical RAM increases, with 1GB memory on pretty much any workstation(even running Pro/E) you wouldn't even need a paging file in most circumstances(although NT/2000 would shamelessly use it, regardless of whether it's needed or affects performance), but your equation would give us a 2GB paging file.

at and beyond 128M, I usually just use a 128M paging file, unless circumstances make it necessary to go larger.

[Omletteboy]

That sounds right, of course I didn't mean if you have 1GB of ram you would still follow the traditional formula.

All I'm curious is that Hpro recommendation doesn't keep a static page file... with min set to half of memory.

[WickedLittleSlaveBoy]

I think his rational is that you only use what you need, if you have 128M, for instance, the odds are that unless you're running huge apps, you never really need more than 64M of paging space, but if you do, it's there....this line of thinking would seem to only be valid at higher physical memory levels. but, I wouldn't presume to know exactly what he's thinking at any given time, he usually suprises me. so, if I'm wrong, sorry.

the only real benefit I can see for keeping the paging file one size is that it reduces fragmentation, but if it rarely grows, the fragmentation would be minimal.

[Hpro]

The reason for me to adjust the PAGE FILE (Win2K) or the SWAP FILE (Win 98) is following :
Each time you restart your computer and boot it up the computer has to write a full size SWAPFILE to the hard disk this slowing down the boot process even on the fastest Computer ..

Setting the Swapfile to 64 Mb taking care of the minimum so that it is assured that Windows will have some place to store it's data while booting - You may notice that Win2k or Win98 will take away about 40 - 60 Mb Ram from 128Mb Physical RAM so you will have either 60 Mb or more left for the use of your applications..That's one of the reasons that I set the Swapfile to 64Mb this will be more than the Computer uses on Physical RAM..

The upper limit is 128 together with the 128 MB Phisical RAM this should be more than enough to have at least ten - to fifteen apps open at the same time without getting a OUT Of MEMORY Error on Win98 and without that Windows will slow down..bTW If Win2k finds that the pagefile isn't enough it will still adjust is automatically - withut to have to restart - happend only once..

Here on my computers I use this settings and it is by far the fastest setting - once I cut the swapfile down to a mere 16 mb but would get out of memory errors when using Win98 - not so on Win2k if you look really good in the advanced setting tab where you change the Pagefile then I could go down to 2MB PAGEFILE this is the minimum the system requires..

If you like to have a huge Swapfile then - it is your freedom to have it as the one I have here fits my needs...

Running RED Hat 7.0 on the computer here with 128Mb RAM I never ever saw that the Swap partition was used - each time I ckeck it, it tells me 0 mb used..and BTW RAM does the thing alot faster than any hard drive ..

Same thing is I have the Temporary Internet Cache set to 5Mb the Recycle bin to 10 Mb the history to 3 days - all this just to keep as little junk as possible on the computer I like to work with - without having to wait until it finds it things within 10'000 files Temp files or can write to the disk in a 400 Mb Swapfile... BTW Win2k defrags the hard drive -70 % load , using Diskeeper 6.0 within 2 minutes at max and Win98 using Norton speed disk Ver.4.0 the 10 GB drive 80% load in somewhat over 3 minutes...this including moving the SWAPFILE

Right now the PAGE FILE is at 64 Mb shown and Physical Ram (Task Manager)I have 45 Mb RAM left - Kernel Memory Total 29Mb - Paged 25Mb - Nonpaged 4mb -Used Memory 74660MB (Physical RAM) and the CPU is running on 2 percent ..now 45Mb RAM left to work with and on top 64Mb pagefile there is no problem .. -

Open are IE6.0,Two Browser Windows, ICQ 2000B, OE 6.0 and explorer and WMP6.4 where Mp3 muisc (Eric Clapton give his best..)is playing non stop..

Oh here something to the hard ware:
MOBO EPOX PP6- NF with Modified Bios (Bios DATE 08-15-1997)
Pentiunm Pro 200 cache 512 with Dynamic clock - present Speed 350Mhz on 2.1 Volts and two 4" By 2"( Secondary number is thickness) High Speed fans on the regular Pro heat sink One front and one back fan & 300 Watt Power Supply FAN
VGA Innovison VOODOO Banshee PCI 16Mb - Monitor Samsung 17inch GLI
Hauppauge WinTV
ATA66 IDE Controller
CREATIVE AWE64 GOLD Sound Blaster with 4mb Ram (midi)
Hard drives Quantum 7.5 GB (win2k) Quantum 10.2GB (Win 98) , Quantum 4.3GB CR (RED HAT) Quantum Fireball 1.2GB (QNX 6)
CDROM ASUS 50X
Computer is 24hours on unless I have to switch OS for whatever reasons..
Win2k Bootime less than 75 seconds , Win98 Bootime less than 60 seconds never measured Red Hat and QNX full version will boot under 25 seconds - I also got a PIII - 800 and it doesn't goes much faster..

Does this answer your question?

BTW - There are also some Problems with this configuration but this are very minimal
1.Win98 will no kee the exact time - because of the Dynamic Bus Clock
2.MIDI will play slow because the ISA bus is to fast by 1 Mhz
Everything else works great..

[Omletteboy]

Sounds good.

I'm was curious cuz my win2k setup has been kinda sluggish, delay in apps opening...

I had my win2k sp1 setup before that was quite speedy, I recently got a IBM 46.1 GB 75GXP HD. So I decided to do a clean slate install rather than ghost. I install all the latest patches.. sp2, latest IE, etc. Now I notice apps are delayed before opening.

Here's my setup

AMD k6-2 450
Asus P5A with 1011 beta bios (needed to support HD larger than 32GB)
196 meg ram
46.1 GB HD and 20 GB HD
48X samsung cdrom and lg 4x4x24 cd/rw
sonic s90 sound card
dual nics
matrox millenium II 4mb PCI

So what I will do first is reduce the ram to 128 meg since ALI chipset I have doesn't cache more than 128 meg ram so I'm taking a hit. I put 196 meg in there cuz I figure even though there is a hit it still should be faster than swapping to virtual memory... don't know if this is right or wrong.

Next I will reduce the swap to what you suggested Hpro. As well I haven't checked if DMA settings are enabled etc.

Anyone have any other suggestions about why my machine is sluggish.

[resetor]

I've been having a look to the amount of the swap file that is used by windows. My discover is that windows uses only about 5-10% ot the swap file depending little of how big i've set the paging file, 128 or 256mb.. anyway the use is not more than 30, maybe 40mb. This is somehow strange while the general advice is to set the paging file to 1.5xRAM or at least 128mb. I look the value with the performance monitor found in admtsrt tools in cntrl panel, have I made a mistake somewhere? Need explication please I've 256mb of ram.. running on a p3 558.

[Omletteboy]

Well I removed 64 meg of ram, so kept to 128 meg. Change the page file to what Hpro suggested. System is definitely speedier now.

resetor, you should try Hpro technique and see if you notice a difference.

[WickedLittleSlaveBoy]

the 1.5-2 general rule is more for a server, where you want to make sure that you're not going to run out of memory.

Hess, I don't see a noticeable difference in boot speed under 2000 with the pagefile on a seperate disk/controller.

[Hpro]

I actually never ever suggested to move the PAGEFILE to another drive - except if the drive would have at least the same Charateristics as the one where the OS runs on - if you run to OS from UDMA2 drive but you place the PAGEFILE on a Mode4 drive I can assure everyone that you will see a Speed drop like a stone drops from a roof - the same is for all those guys who are creating a SWAP partition on the same drive - this will only cause the Read / Write head to move more and in the end slow down the overall process - Keep it on the same drive and defrag it regular - If you do a lot install / uninstall if tyou plave it on a SECOND HARD DRIVE then make sure that the SPEED of the hard drive matches the SPEED of the one where the OS is on..Use diskeeper or any other defrag program to defrag the MASTER FILE TABLE and also BOOT DEFRAGMENT - this will improve the speed of win2k - that you can SEE and FEEL it..

keep the PAGE FILE within certain levels - depending what you use your computer for..There is no SOLE SOLUTION but there is the way to try to find the best individual Solution for each user.. that's in fact what I meant ..

Just build a PIII 800 EB within 20 minutes today and another one hour to completely install 3 partitions for Boot, Win98 - Win2000 on a ASUS CUSL2-C without any problems ...and now it's ready to be delivered to the customer with two OS fully installed and all what comes with it..

Sometime I wonder why there are so many people having so may problems to get their computers build on the first try..Anyway if I can help to get anything boing better - be all sure I certainly will..

This few lines go to resetor:

I just build as I stated above a system for a customer this afternoon - and this just for notice the PAGEFILE was set by Windows to a DEFAULT of 192 Mb min and 384 Mb Max this would be a level of 1.5 for minimum and 2 for maximum and the PIII - was crawling instead of flying - Oh this on 128 Mb Ram - I set the Pagefile to 64 - 128 and the PIII is really speeding away now..

If you look very good at the size of the Pagefile which is Special Hidden in the Root folder - then you will see that it always will create the minimum amount set in Windows Control Panel device managers performance Tab.!How much actually will be use is another question but it has to be created on each restart.!Otherwise there it wouldn't be necessary to have a Hibernate Option build in to windows..

This for Omletteboy - I wouldn't remove the RAM - but instead find the tweak which will fit your computer best with the 192 Mb - this may require a few restarts but it is worth it - try with 64 min and 192 Max for the amount of 192 Mb if this is not eoungh then top the MIN by 5 mb steps.. Look at the task manager how much you need just to open windows without anythings else opened..

And then a second test with a normal run and a third test with a full load -until the computer is slowing down or Win2k comes and increases the PAGEFILE.. then you will know the limits..

[mosquito]

Putting the swap file on a separate disk won't give you a lot of performance increase with IDE drives (but it gives a bit), on SCSI drives on the other hand, the performance increase is significant.

[thodges5]

After reading all the replies, I think the best thing to do is try some different settings, respectively. It seems that there is no "set in stone" way to do this.

I have some machines that have only one drive, some with one IDE and one SCSI (not sure which type of SCSI drive), some with two identical IDE drives and some with two seperate IDE drives.

I think at this point, I don't want to be forced to rely on having to run defrag. Any maintenance or rebooting of these machines has to be scheduled as it interupts production. I have a small window on Sundays where I can do all the maintenance, but that would mean having to work on the weekend. As it is now, I will have to wait until Sunday to start experiementing with these different pagefile suggestions and then monitor the performance during the weekdays. If a certain setting causes a performance drop, I would have to live with that until the following Sunday. Rebooting the system during the week is not an option, unless it is the last resort.

Right now, on my NT 4.0 workstation, I am running 98 meg RAM with a swap file set to 108 for the min and max. The pagefile also resides on the secondary IDE drive. No performance problems yet.

[WickedLittleSlaveBoy]

Hess,

let me rephrase that, I don't notice a difference in boot time between setting up the page file your way, if it's on a seperate drive/controller. I believe you know that I would never suggest putting the page file on a slow drive, or on the same IDE controller.


btw, MFT defragmentation can be dangerous. I've lost one partition and I've had to fix another with test disk after using Diskeeper workstation to defrag the MFT. but, the system will run better, and if MFT fragmentation becomes too great, the system will refuse to boot.


thodges,

the MS suggested method is to start with Physical RAM + 12M, then run performance monitor to figure out exactly how much you need.

[glc]

Consider putting Diskeeper Pro 6.0 on all your NT and 2k boxes - and set them up to do their own maintenance. It has a "smart scheduler" so it only does things when needed, and at times when YOU allow it to - and it has "frag guard" which helps prevent fragmentation.