Starting with a choice of Operating Systems

[JonDee]

I've got two Hard drives, each with an Operating System installed. On the C Drive, I've installed Windows 98SE and on the other Drive, I've installed Windows XP. When I turn on the computer, I can only go to Windows 98SE and would like to be able to have a choice of which one I want to start up. How can I get a little menu or choice when I start up? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[Panama Red]

Must be you installed each without the other drive connected. That would result in a lack of boot option like you'd get with a true multi-boot installation. Only way I know of now is to install something like Boot Magic that comes with Partition Magic.

[Statica]

What OS did you install first? 98 needs to be installed first. XP needs to be installed next; start the installation from within 98's environment and make sure you specify that its a new installation and not an upgrade.

[Panama Red]

I just remembered another way. On some motherboards you can tap a key during boot up and it will display the different boot options much like getting to Safe mode. Not all will do it and the key varies from one to another. It is typically a Function key.

[Statica]

Originally Posted by Panama Red I just remembered another way. On some motherboards you can tap a key during boot up and it will display the different boot options much like getting to Safe mode. Not all will do it and the key varies from one to another. It is typically a Function key.

IMO it would appear that something went wrong with the XP bootloader that you dont see a choice of OS. If the XP bootloader got in correctly, then it woudl be default take you to XP not to 98.. so it could be one of the following:
a) You didnt load 98 first
b) the XP install crashed out (do you see the XP install? at all) Do you see a boot.ini on your C drive?
c) You edited out your boot.ini and lost the choices

A possible solution is to try the following:
boot using the XP CD and see if you have an option for Repair an existing installation using the Recovery Console. This is only happens if it detects an XP installation. If you dont see the repair option then you likely need to reinstall. If you do see the option for repair press R to enter it. Now type the following out (I am assuming that your Windows XP CD is in Drive 'F'! adjust for your personal system) - each line is a separate command..

copy F:\i386\ntldr c:\
copy F:\i386\ntdetect.com c:\
attrib -h -r -s c:\boot.ini
ren c:\boot.ini boot.old
bootcfg /rebuild

The bootcfg /rebuild directive is a command to recreate a new boot.ini; it should search your drives out for an OS. at the very least it should get you started with XP. Adding another OS after you get XP running is a cinch.

The steps I've outlined may potentially render your current OS installations unusable and may force you to install your operating systems. If you are not comfortable with it, please do not do it. As always, have a backup on hand! I'm sorry if the warning sounds drastic, but we're working at steps that are shuffling the ntloader around etc!

[Panama Red]

Originally Posted by Statica IMO it would appear that something went wrong with the XP bootloader that you dont see a choice of OS.....

Ah, not necessarily. If each operating system was installed when only one hard drive was attached, then each would be a clean installation and whichever hard drive is selected in the bios as the first to boot would be the default boot os. Neither system is "aware" of the existance of the other. This is not a true dual boot or multi boot system and the boot loader doesn't get modified during the installation of the newer os. If I'm right in the way I read the system configuration, this is how JonDee did the install. I'm not familiar with modifying the boot.ini but I did have a system confgured exactly as I've outlined. Fortunately it was on an Asus P4PE mobo that had the boot selection key. Someone on another fourm turned me on to this feature as it isn't detailed anywhere at Asus or in the manual.

[Statica]

Originally Posted by Panama Red Ah, not necessarily. If each operating system was installed when only one hard drive was attached, then each would be a clean installation and whichever hard drive is selected in the bios as the first to boot would be the default boot os. Neither system is "aware" of the existance of the other. This is not a true dual boot or multi boot system and the boot loader doesn't get modified during the installation of the newer os. If I'm right in the way I read the system configuration, this is how JonDee did the install. I'm not familiar with modifying the boot.ini but I did have a system confgured exactly as I've outlined. Fortunately it was on an Asus P4PE mobo that had the boot selection key. Someone on another fourm turned me on to this feature as it isn't detailed anywhere at Asus or in the manual.

True .. sorry forgot about the fact that it is possible that JohnDee might have turned the alternate drives off. I am but a Milhouse...
But the solution IMO is going to be quite the same. The idea here is to employ the facilities (bootloader) of the more advanced OS (in this case XP) to start any OS - even if XP did not see the other OS during installation. Booting up another OS once XP's boot.ini is accessible is a simpler proposition. That way you can let the OS environment allow you choice than having a hardware interrupt or a 3rd party bootloader.
For further reference, if one is to multiboot; always make sure that you are in a position where the OS is going to detect that there are multiple OS. Always make sure you install the older OS first and the newer one second (if the second one is in the NT generation, at least).

[JonDee]

Guys, I installed each Operating System with only that Hard drive connected at the time. I had so much trouble installing Windows 98SE, that I didn't want to take a chance on having to install it again, if things didn't go just right with the installation of Windows XP. I did install the Windows 98SE on a hard drive that was hooked up to the primary IDE as master, first. Then I disconnectedthe ribbon and installed the secondary or slave connector to the next hard drive and installed Windows XP. Then after that was done, I connected both drives to their respective connections and then can only access the first drive. When you install two operating systems, using two separate drives, what are the steps you should take to install two OS's to be able to get that little blurp that asks you which to start? Thanks for all your quick responses and for everything.

[Statica]

Originally Posted by JonDee Guys, I installed each Operating System with only that Hard drive connected at the time. I had so much trouble installing Windows 98SE, that I didn't want to take a chance on having to install it again, if things didn't go just right with the installation of Windows XP. I did install the Windows 98SE on a hard drive that was hooked up to the primary IDE as master, first. Then I disconnectedthe ribbon and installed the secondary or slave connector to the next hard drive and installed Windows XP. Then after that was done, I connected both drives to their respective connections and then can only access the first drive. When you install two operating systems, using two separate drives, what are the steps you should take to install two OS's to be able to get that little blurp that asks you which to start? Thanks for all your quick responses and for everything.

Well that explains a whole lot. As I said, the ideal way to install XP to multiboot with 98 is to allow it to see both drives. Now you've got more issues. If you ever boot to 98 with the XP drive connected, 98 is going to detect new hardware and will want to partition and format it if you chose NTFS for XP. While XP will not want to repartition and format, it will detect the new drive, and you may now have different drive letters for different OS', and the potential for confusion.
Personally this is what I would do in your situation if I were to start from scratch.
* Connect both drives and delete all partitions
* Partition and install 98SE to Drive 1 .. dont partition Drive 2 (if you are going to install NTFS - which is highly recommended)
* 98SE is going to install as usual, and will detect that other hard drive but leave it for you
* You can now either put in your XP CD from within 98, and choose new installation rather than upgrade .. or you can boot from your XP CD and install to Drive 2 as a new installation
* You should automatically be given boot choices, which you can play with later.

What you can do going forward:
Since you said that you had probs installing 98, can you afford to reinstall XP? The steps outlined before will not work because you obviously cannot connect the C drive.
If you can afford to reinstall XP try this:
1) disconnect C drive, connect D drive and boot using the XP CD
2) Get to the stage where you want to do a new install and want to select partitions. Just delete all partitions .. make it into one big unpartitioned space
3) Turn off your computer after that step.
4) Connect C drive, boot to 98. Let 98 find your new drive; if it asks you for partitioning etc etc, say No to it.
5) Insert your XP CD, go through the setup for a new installation
6) It should be as before, now when you select the partitions, select drive 2.

When you boot now, you should be given a choice of OS'.

Why NTFS is recommended for XP?
Well its been beaten to death about how NTFS is an infinitely more stable FS. So unless you have specific requirements on wanting to share space with 98 you should choose NTFS. Even if you want to share some space with your win98 bootup, it is recommended that you make at least 2 partitions on Drive 2, the first one about 10GB in size to install XP and the other can be in FAT32. This ensures that a crash on your 98 side of things doesnt dirty up your XP partition. Remember that 98 cannot see NTFS partitions but XP can see your 98's partitions.

[Panama Red]

Boot Magic is still the easiest way now considering how you got to this point. Here's an article that describes it's use.

http://www.mozillaquest.com/stories_...ory-01_01.html

[GaryRouth]

Seems like booting from the XP CD and doing the repair installation should do it. Otherwise you'll have to get to the Recovery Console and run the fixboot applet.

Just as Panama & Statica have mentioned, all you need is for the Windows XP bootloader to be in the root directory of the active partition of the C: drive (and have the boot.ini configured properly: which either a reinstallation or repair installation or fixboot of Windows XP should do).

Since these are new installs, I imagine you have your personal data backed up on removable media already: so might as well try the repair angle.

Best of luck
. . . Gary

[P.S. -- surprised to hear that you had trouble installing Win98se. Was it because this is a newer system, and the cpu was faster than 2ghz? (and you received the Ndis errors?) --- other than that, and some tricky workarounds for today's gigantic hard drives, it's usually uneventful]

Late Edit: Hi Statica & Panama = seems like we must be typing at the same time. Doesn't it seem like booting to the XP CD with both hard drives attached will allow XP to detect the installation on the 2nd drive, and drop ntldr, ntdetect, and a workable boot.ini onto the 1st drives root?

[Statica]

Addendum:
If you are so inclined .. you could try recovering your XP partition .. by doing the following .. plug in both drives .. boot to XP CD and see if you have a repair option available to you. If you do, you can follow the steps I outlined before except just run these commands and see if it works?

copy F:\i386\ntldr c:\
copy F:\i386\ntdetect.com c:\
bootcfg /rebuild

---

Boot Magic is easy, but IMO if you can get yourself working with built in tools, its better in the long run. Say you reinstall XP, or make a new install of XP, or install an upgraded Windows, are you confident that the Microsoft OS will now read and collate entries from a 3rd party bootstrap?

[JonDee]

Thanks for all the quick responses. This is my grandsons computer and what I thought would be a simple installation of everything, but nothing ever goes as it should when I need for it to. First of all his computer was built a few years ago by myself and did work pretty well and still did, when I brought it back to my house for installation of 98SE. He wanted Windows 98SE because of a lot of games that we had that wouldn't work on XP. Anyway when I turned his computer on, it was real slow and sluggish. I checked the memory and he didn"t have much and it was DDR 2100, so I ordered 1 Gig, of DDR 2700 and a new Windows XP for his computer. Well the memory wouldn't make the computer go any better, so I had a better Motherboard and the new memory would work real fine in this motherboard, so I installed this motherboard and new memory. Then I loaded the Windows98SE boot disk and proceeded to have problem after problem with getting it to install, but finally got it to go. Then I installed the Windows XP and didn"t want anything to go wrong with the installation that would screw up the 98SE that I had so much trouble installing. Anyway, are you sure that if I have the Windows 98SE disk hooked up and also the other one, that when I try to do a repair on the windows XP that I won't mess it up? I would hate to start over on the 98SE installation. Thanks for all your replies to my question. This is the best site on the internet.

[Statica]

Originally Posted by JonDee Anyway, are you sure that if I have the Windows 98SE disk hooked up and also the other one, that when I try to do a repair on the windows XP that I won't mess it up? I would hate to start over on the 98SE installation. Thanks for all your replies to my question. This is the best site on the internet.

It shouldn't mess anything up when you try to repair or re-install XP - provided you take the time to read onscreen directions about which drive you are formatting or partitioning etc. A repair install is offered only if the previous version of XP was detected. In my experience, if the user is perfectly clear about which partition and drive needs to be formatted and takes the time to go through the onscreen questions and directions, nothing wrong happens. But of course my (or anyone else's) experience should be of mere marginal value for you
PR's suggestion of using a 3rd party solution is also a valid one, if you want to try it out.

[GaryRouth]

Windows 98 stuff:
[P.S. -- the sluggishness in Windows 98 with 1gb of memory probably led you to adding the VCACHE line to your System.ini file - yes? If not, that edit helps Windows 98 deal with 512mb or more of system memory. http://www.computerhope.com/jargon/v/vcache.htm
And here's a link to the patch for cpu's over 2ghz for Win98
http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;312108
And you probably already know all the hard drive limits (need recent fdisk for >64gb drives, partition sizes no bigger than 128gb, etc) The WinMe fdisk will do for drives >64gb (available at bootdisk.com) . . . ]

[JonDee]

Thanks so very much for all who responded to my problem. With your help, I finally got it set up the way I wanted it, but I had to re-install Windows XP with both drives connected and I did not mess up the Windows 98SE installation. You guys were so very helpful and I wish to thank you all, once again. All is well with my grandson's computer.