Why No CD?

[Khalil]

My grandfather lives in a different state, he bought an HP computer from Best Buy but it didn't come with the original Windows XP disk. When he called and asked them they told him that is the way it is. Is that not a huge rip off? he paid close to $ 2000 for the computer. Why does Microsoft allow this to happen?

[doctorgonzo]

No prebuilt computer makers give out Windows install disks anymore. If anything, they give you a restore disk that will restore your computer back to its original state.

M$ allows this to happen because HP is buying a license from M$ to run a copy of Windows on that particular computer only. The Windows installation can't be moved to another computer, so there is no point to giving customers a Windows install disk.

[faulkner132]

I think it is more an HP problem... take advantage of that 30 return policy Best Buy has and get another brand. You never know when you will need the CD.

[Khalil]

Those restore disks dont work though. I have had several people tell me this. They all bought their computers at Best Buy, Walmart or Circuit City and its the same story when things go wrong they can't use the restore. A friend of mine had a virus he couldn't get rid of and he formated his hard drive the restore disk would not install windows again. Compaq told him he had to buy a brand new windows xp. This is wrong!!!

[Dark Nova]

i hate it when they do that, dell does the same thing

[Khalil]

another thing, if the mobo goes out on you and you decide to use a new one, even if the Restore disk works it wouldnt register the software to the new mobo. You pay 1500 for the computer and just because you need to replace a 60 dollar mobo you have to buy a brand new OS that seriously blows.

[faulkner132]

Originally Posted by Dark Nova i hate it when they do that, dell does the same thing

Dell ships the OS along with the computer. We ordered a laptop last week from them and sure enough, the OS CD came with it (modified to where you can only install it on a Dell of course). Maybe that is because we are ordering through the Small Business section instead of the standard Home Computer section.

[Dark Nova]

Originally Posted by faulkner132 Dell ships the OS along with the computer. We ordered a laptop last week from them and sure enough, the OS CD came with it (modified to where you can only install it on a Dell of course). Maybe that is because we are ordering through the Small Business section instead of the standard Home Computer section.

i bouht 2dells and one of them came with the system restore cd, the other with just the book

[doctorgonzo]

Originally Posted by Khalil Those restore disks dont work though.

The restore disks work as long as you follow the directions. A lot of times, the restore disk will just restore the computer from an image stored on a partition on the hard drive. When your friend formatted the drive, of course that backup image was erased too and so the restore disk was useless.

Yes, it would be far nicer if they provided a real Windows CD so you could do a repair install, use the repair console, and so on. But when you are buying a computer for $500 at Best Buy, you aren't going to be getting any extras.

If you don't want to deal with restore disks, build your own computer and purchase your own OEM copy of Windows.

[Khalil]

Exactly, my mother in law bought hers from Dell as well and she only got the books. When she tried calling them, the customer support people she spoke to could barely speak English and she was not able to get anything resolved.

[Khalil]

Originally Posted by doctorgonzo The restore disks work as long as you follow the directions. A lot of times, the restore disk will just restore the computer from an image stored on a partition on the hard drive. When your friend formatted the drive, of course that backup image was erased too and so the restore disk was useless. Yes, it would be far nicer if they provided a real Windows CD so you could do a repair install, use the repair console, and so on. But when you are buying a computer for $500 at Best Buy, you aren't going to be getting any extras. If you don't want to deal with restore disks, build your own computer and purchase your own OEM copy of Windows.

My grandfather didnt pay $500 he paid $2000 and even if it is a $500 computer it is not right not to include a copy of the OEM OS. Actualy in my opinion there ought to be laws passed to stop such fraud from taking place.

[doctorgonzo]

I understand why you think it's fraud, but in reality, it's not. When you buy a copy of Windows, you are not buying the CD. You a paying for a license to be allowed to run Windows. This is how it works for all software.

When you buy a computer from Dell, the Windows license you are getting allows you to run Windows on that exact computer only. That computer, that motherboard, that hardware setup, period. That's the license you are paying for. I know software licensing is probably difficult to understand for people who are used to buying a "thing" and not a license to "use a thing," but that's what Dell and other companies do to make sure their prices are as low as possible.

If Dell wanted to provide a full license, then that would add probably $100 to the cost of a computer, making it not competitive with other computers.

[EzyStvy]

It's not fruad and there's nothing illegal about it. If he had gotten an orignal XP CD the pc would have cost $2200.00..

[Khalil]

Originally Posted by doctorgonzo I understand why you think it's fraud, but in reality, it's not. When you buy a copy of Windows, you are not buying the CD. You a paying for a license to be allowed to run Windows. This is how it works for all software. When you buy a computer from Dell, the Windows license you are getting allows you to run Windows on that exact computer only. That computer, that motherboard, that hardware setup, period. That's the license you are paying for. I know software licensing is probably difficult to understand for people who are used to buying a "thing" and not a license to "use a thing," but that's what Dell and other companies do to make sure their prices are as low as possible. If Dell wanted to provide a full license, then that would add probably $100 to the cost of a computer, making it not competitive with other computers.

You and I are on the same page, even though the law currently supports the manufacturers I feel that the end consumer is getting screwed. I just called my grandfather and told asked him to stop payment on his credit card and to take the computer back to them. I checked the specs on the computer they sold him I can build him one far better and faster with a Graphics card and more Ram for 800 dollars less (including shiipping it to him) and it would include windows XP Professional with the disk. I got my pricing on the components from Newegg.

[Khalil]

Originally Posted by EzyStvy It's not fruad and there's nothing illegal about it. If he had gotten an orignal XP CD the pc would have cost $2200.00..

In my opinion selling a brand new computer to a consumer without the original OS is Fraudulant especialy since it is not disclosed anywhere on the computers displayed at those stores. Most consumers only find this out when they have a problem with their computers. If it is legal and all ok then it should be disclosed and the option to buy the CD should be made clear and available.

[Panama Red]

It's worth noting that new HP's come with instructions on how to create your own Restore Disks using either 7 CD's or 1 DVD. If the pc comes with a DVD burner they also include a DVD that can be used to make the back up. Most folks just take the components out of the box, connect things and go! Twice now I've made Restore Disks for customers because they never read the owner's manual when they first got their new pc.

Sure would be nice if all new pc's came with a Windows OS on disk but as others have stated that's not the current licensing policy from MS. That's one of the sales points I always make when offering to build a pc vs someone buying a prebuilt.

[Khalil]

Originally Posted by Panama Red It's worth noting that new HP's come with instructions on how to create your own Restore Disks using either 7 CD's or 1 DVD. If the pc comes with a DVD burner they also include a DVD that can be used to make the back up. Most folks just take the components out of the box, connect things and go! Twice now I've made Restore Disks for customers because they never read the owner's manual when they first got their new pc. Sure would be nice if all new pc's came with a Windows OS on disk but as others have stated that's not the current licensing policy from MS. That's one of the sales points I always make when offering to build a pc vs someone buying a prebuilt.

*Cheers for Panama Red*

[doctorgonzo]

Originally Posted by Khalil I checked the specs on the computer they sold him I can build him one far better and faster with a Graphics card and more Ram for 800 dollars less (including shiipping it to him) and it would include windows XP Professional with the disk. I got my pricing on the components from Newegg.

That's the reason I will never buy a store-bought computer again.

Keep in mind that the profit margins on these computers are next to nothing. That's why so many computer companies are losing money and that's why IBM sold their PC division. When profit margins on hardware are razor-thin, adding the cost of a full license would make the computer unsellable. Even on an expensive computer, that could add 10% to the final cost, and for a $500 weekly special at Best Buy, the price could go up by 25% or more.

Manufacturers wouldn't use poor quality or proprietary components if they could get away with charging more.

[faulkner132]

Originally Posted by Khalil My grandfather didnt pay $500 he paid $2000 and even if it is a $500 computer it is not right not to include a copy of the OEM OS. Actualy in my opinion there ought to be laws passed to stop such fraud from taking place.

Gonzo is right, it is not fraud. This is just how the business works. If you don't like it, you have alternatives. You may not like the alternatives, but complaining about it won't get anything accomplished.

Mac ships OS CD's with their products and you can always use 'nix and never worry about licensing again. Then again, you can always buy your own copy for use on any machine...

[mairving]

Dell gives you the option when ordering to get it with the restore CD at no extra charge. HP used to send you a restore CD if you needed it at a nominal charge.

[Khalil]

Originally Posted by faulkner132 Gonzo is right, it is not fraud. This is just how the business works. If you don't like it, you have alternatives. You may not like the alternatives, but complaining about it won't get anything accomplished. Mac ships OS CD's with their products and you can always use 'nix and never worry about licensing again. Then again, you can always buy your own copy for use on any machine...

I am not complaining I am voicing my opinion and just because the big corporations say thats how it goes it does not mean as Citizens of a Democracy we have no right to voice our opinions and force them to make changes.
The manufacturers are always cutting corners so they can make more and more money, it costs them far less to buy a mass license where they don't have to give out the original disk with the hologram on it.
I think computer builders should make money but they should not cut corners and short change the consumer.
As average middle class consumers in America we are on a never ending incline where we pay far more for far less yet our income is barely going up.
If you want to support big corporations making billions while we all suffer then that is your choice.

[Khalil]

Originally Posted by mairving Dell gives you the option when ordering to get it with the restore CD at no extra charge. HP used to send you a restore CD if you needed it at a nominal charge.

Best Buy, Walmart and others like them do not offer you that option nor do they disclose the fact that there is no disk at all recovery or otherwise.
The only time you find out is when something goes wrong and more than likely by then your out the warranty anyways. Yet another way to screw the consumer.

[faulkner132]

Khalil, I did not mean to come across as criticizing you. If I did I apologize. There are a few points you made which I would like to address.

just because the big corporations say thats how it goes it does not mean as Citizens of a Democracy we have no right to voice our opinions and force them to make changes

Democracy has nothing do with it... as a consumer you voice your opinion by boycotting the product and spreading the word. This is exactly what I was saying in my previous post, you have to use an alternative... nobody said it was easy.

If you want to support big corporations making billions while we all suffer then that is your choice.

If you have seen any of my posts in the General Discussions board, you will see I am extremely Anti-Corporation. I don't work for one, nor do I want to. They destroy small businesses and discourage the dispersion of knowledge/information freely (a topic for the General Discussion board). As a realist though, it is just something you have to deal with in America.

As average middle class consumers in America we are on a never ending incline where we pay far more for far less yet our income is barely going up.

As an average middle class consumer, you are in a much better position than most people in this country.

The manufacturers are always cutting corners so they can make more and more money, it costs them far less to buy a mass license where they don't have to give out the original disk with the hologram on it.

This has been going on since the dawn of Capitalism... and will only continue.

Khalil, again I stress I am not trying to criticize you at all. I just want to demonstrate some of the realities and frustrations you have to deal with in our society.

[jayb1234]

Another big reason that they don't ship full versions with new PCs is to try and cut down on piracy. There are too many people out there who feel that just because they have a CD that they should be able to install it on as many computers as they want to. Then they go to the forums and try to get someone to help them out when an illegal installation of a manufacturers oem OS wont work.

[jeeter2]

HP sells replacement DVD's for $10 the bad news is you have to have a credit card to order it and I need one but have no plastic and I cant order through the mail.

[glc]

All computers that come with a preload and no restore media have a hidden partition with all the install files on it, usually accessed with a F-key at POST. Most manufacturers also include a utility to burn a set of restore disks in case you have a hard drive failure - these will redo the drive exactly the way it came. Dell does not include the utility any more, but media is available for $10, available at purchase as an option or after the fact. HP will sell you official restore disks after the fact if you need them and failed to make your own.

You can't really blame the manufacturers for doing it this way - Microsoft makes it most attractive due to their pricing structure. They offer a substantial discount for licenses if no media is provided - because of their desire to limit piracy all they can.