win 3.11 problem

[seharm]

Hello! I have and old 386 computer here. A DTK to be exact! I have reformatted the hard drive, reloaded dos 6.22 and reloaded 2 different copies of win 3.11 for workgroups. I get the same problem each time. The dos works great; the win 3.11 loads OK and says all is fine, but when you reboot, dos comes up fine, and when you type win and hit enter, the blue box comes up fine and says win 3.11 for workgroups and that's where it dies. The box just sits there and does nothing and it just seems to lock up there. It will go no further. I have reloaded everything again after another reformat with a second set of win 3.11 disks, and we still come out to the same problem. I am thinking something is missing from the autoexec bat or the config sys file but I am not sure. I do have norton commander installed in dos to be able to look at things and edit them. Help??????????????????????

[whubbard]

lol...i think the problem is that your using 3.11. hehe (seriously why haven't you upgraded)

Ok, but what are your specs, are you sure there isn't a driver problem.

[clroberts]

Ummm. With a 386 you can't even run Windows 95 decently. That's about the max you can run on a 386. I would start out by checking out all the IRQ settings and see if there are any conflicts. This is before the days of Plug N Play so everything had settings. Edit the Autoexec.bat file and change the @Echo Off Command to @Echo On so you can see the batch file executing. You can hit esc when the Windows 3.11 Screen pops up and it should let you see what's loading up behind the scenes. They used to make a PC Tools program that was probably the best one made (I even preferred that version over the new stuff because it had hex editors so you could change memory addresses on the fly)

[edfair]

Might help if you posted your config.sys and autoexec.bat.
Suspect that you could use high memory as defined in config.sys.
Device=c:\dos\himem.sys
device=c:\dos\emm386.exe noems

[seharm]

The only specs I have are a DTK computer, model PTP 205, running a pentium 54c processor at 133mhz. Western digital hard drive, 610 MB, and 16MB ram. Thats about all I can tell you!

[clroberts]

What about a display of the autoexec.bat and config.sys files? That's part of the trouble shooting piece.

[seharm]

Where can I find the IRQ settings on this critter? I did change the Echo off command to echo on and it made no difference at all. Can't escape out to anything. Just seems to lock up at the blue box and nothing further can be made to happen.

[seharm]

Autoexec.bat is
c:\windows\net start
c:\windows\smartdrive.exe /L /X
@Echo on
Prompt $p $g
Path c:\windows ;c:\dos
Set temp=c:\dos

[clroberts]

You need to have the path set before you have the first two commands executing.
I haven't ran old dos for a while, but try a different order first:
Change it to:

@Echo on
Prompt $p$g
Path c:\windows ;c:\dos
Set temp=c:\dos
c:\windows\net start
c:\windows\smartdrive.exe /L /X

[seharm]

Well, that didn't work good at all! Now when I type "WIN" at the C prompt, it says "Bad command or file name"., and it goes no where at all!

[seharm]

Originally Posted by edfair Might help if you posted your config.sys and autoexec.bat. Suspect that you could use high memory as defined in config.sys. Device=c:\dos\himem.sys device=c:\dos\emm386.exe noems

Nowhere do I have this configuration? Mine is Device=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS
Is that what you mean? Thank you!

[whubbard]

I believe that is what he means....yes

[seharm]

OK, I tried that and it did nothing more! And all the last things I tried, now when Dos is finished loading, I get 8 "C' prompts. Anybody know why? Before, I used to get one. Thanks!

[glc]

1. At the C prompt:

md temp

2. Edit your config.sys:

device=c:\dos\himem.sys
device=c:\dos\emm386.exe noems
dos=high,umb
devicehigh=c:\windows\ifshlp.sys

3. Edit your autoexec.bat:

@echo off
prompt $p$g
path=c:\;c:\dos;c:\windows
set temp=c:\temp
lh c:\dos\smartdrv.exe 4096

NOTE: Exact syntax is critical - NO spaces if you don't see any where I typed. In the config.sys and autoexec.bat, put the cursor at the end of the last line and hit the delete key several times to get rid of extra carraige returns.

[seharm]

When I edit the autoexec.bat and the config.sys do you want me to take everything else out and just put in what you typed in there for the both of them? Just want to make sure before I do it! Thanks!

[Dan Penny]

If I may....

I would use the Windows himem.sys, emm386.exe, and smartdrv.exe files as they (if I remember correctly) are newer than the MSDOS versions. (A check of the files time stamp will verify which is newer.)

As well, I don't believe the ifshlp file is required to be called for W3.11. Adding the "16" to the smartdrv line tells windows to allocate only 16KB ~while Windows is running~, while in DOS you'll get 4096KB.

Thus:

CONFIG.SYS
-------------
device=c:\windows\himem.sys
device=c:\windows\emm386.exe noems
dos=high,umb
;devicehigh=c:\windows\ifshlp.sys


AUTOEXEC.BAT
-------------
@echo off
prompt $p$g
path=c:\;c:\dos;c:\windows
set temp=c:\temp
lh c:\windows\smartdrv.exe 4096 16
c:\windows\win

(That last line causes Windows to automatically start at the end of the boot process.)

If you don't want to remove the current config and autoexec contents, you can place a semi-colon and REM (remark) statement (respectively) at the beginning of each line you don't wish to run. ie;

;devicehigh=c:\windows\ifshlp.sys

and

rem c:\windows\win

[glc]

The DOS 6.22 versions of those files are newer and preferable to use. 3.11 for WORKGROUPS requires IFSHLP. Once you are up and operating in Windows, you can enable VCACHE and rem out smartdrv. With 16mb of ram, leaving it as just 4096 without the 16 is not a problem.

For now, you can delete everything else. Once you are in Windows, then you can start installing stuff that will add lines to the files.

[Dan Penny]

"(if I remember correctly)"

That's what I get for going on memory..... ;>}

Thanks for the error correction. I was sure (& obviously wrong) that 6.22 came out before 3.11. I should set up a DOS/Win3.11 box. Hmmmmmm....................... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

[glc]

It's a fine line - if it were DOS 6.2 I'd say to use the Windows versions.

[seharm]

OK Guys, we are making progress! I tried Dan Penny's post and it works better now. It will go past the blue box and it gives me an error message "The windows for workgroups network was not started. Check your configuration, or run setup again to set up windows for workgroups properly. The windows for workgroups network driver was unable to load." This is not a real problem because this is not on a network and if I hit OK on the error box, then windows is loaded and there. What can I do to escape this network driver message and scrap that part of it? Thanks!

[juppy]

Do you still have the line in the autoexec.bat file that reads

c:\windows\net start

If so, try putting a rem statement in front of it so it reads

rem c:\windows\net start

instead.
That's probably what's trying to start the network part up, although I don't know if it's a critical thing to have or not, because I never used the workgroups version of that program; just the regular Win 3.1. Needless to say, if it doesn't help, just take the rem statement back off of the first of it again.

[edfair]

You remove the offending line in autoexec.bat or config.sys. It is also possible that you could do as the error message suggests, get to the windows directory and run setup and change the network portion.

When the bootup reaches the starting msdos prompt hit the [F8] and process the config and autoexec a line at a time and note the error or approval message that comes up. An error indicates something not working correctly, either missing parts or invalid settings.

[glc]

I've never used net start with WFW, you should remove that. Did you put ifshlp back in?

[seharm]

Yes I did put the ifshlp back in and I will try removing that net start. When I loaded this, I think I put that network stuff on there not knowing what it was at the time. My mistake! Thanks!

[seharm]

Oops, I don't have net start in there anymore. We took that out when we did the new autoexec.bat and the new config.sys the last time. So where and how do we go now? Thanks!

[glc]

Look in your program groups for SYSEDIT. Open that, then look through the SYSTEM.INI and WIN.INI files for things that may start the network - comment them out with a ;

If you can't get into Windows for some reason or you prefer to do this from DOS, you can edit both files with the DOS editor or NC - they should be in c:\windows.

[seharm]

OK, I ran the setup again and took out the network part and it seemed to fix everything! Thank you all very much for all your help with this antique. It has been many years since I used this also. But with all your help, all is fine now. Many thanks again for all the help!