Power User and Windows Automatic Updates

[theweeklygeek]

I have this happening on a couple of computers.
Windows Automatic Updates are set for Friday 3 am.
Every boot the wuauserv runs no matter what.
If the user logged on is a Power User the svchost that wuauserv is in eats 98 to 100% cpu cycles for 5 to 10 minutes and then lets go.
At some point later (5 minutes to 2 hours) wuauserv tries again. This happens every day not just Friday.
If I log on as an Administrator the Windows Update still runs, finds nothing and quickly disappears.
If set for Friday why is wuauserv trying to run on every boot / reboot.
I have killed several processes out of this svchost (Wireless Zero, Windows Time, TCP/IP NetBIOS Helper, Remote Registry) and I have set to "Manual" Machine Debug Manager and DNS Client. All of this was a test and I still am at square one.

[theweeklygeek]

Update!
As Administrator I do not have these issues.
I made the Power User an Administrator and he still has the same issues.

Outlook is also extreemly boggy when writing an e-mail or reading new e-mail. Previously viewed e-mails are speedy.
If I crash Outlook then the Microsoft error system sends me to a page that blames Symantec WinFax Pr.
There is no Symantec anything on this system.
BTW This is a fresh format and install.
Windows XP Pro, Office 2k3 Pro all updates on both.
On Outlook I removed Spam Bayes - No Change
I cchanged NOD32 Anti-virus settings way down - No Change
I terminated AVG Anti-Spyware and Java Just Check Scheduler - No Change.
Using Process Viewer I was able to stop the CPU usage during boot (Manually) by going into the SVCHost and killing a file called "ntdll.dll!RtlAllocateHeap+0x18c"
This however does not solve the Outlook issue.
I tried to run Windows Updates. Active X was turned off in teh Browser settings, I set all back to default. This might have been Spybot, AVG Anti-Spyware, NOD32 Anti-virus) they are the only security programs (we use Windows Firewall).
On the Windows Update site under the Scheduled update time it had "everyday 3 am" but going under the control panel to the Security settings it was still "Friday 3am" I changed the Windows Update site to show Monday 3am. Ist still is constantly trying to update.
After 1 hour and 30 minutes (and counting) The Windows Update stide ist still at the "Checking fo the latest updates for your computer.." with the scrolling bar.
Even thoug I had removed SPAM Bayes and rebooted, the toolbar was still in Outlook. I removed it fia the "toolbars" check box.

Now, with Outlook eating 100% CPU cycles I can change its priority via Process Explorer". If I put it at the lowest process "6" (Not idle) I see no changes (by default it is in Normal "8"). If I move the priority to the highest (Real time "24") then even the mouse freezes up.

[theweeklygeek]

Well, I have another PC that I installed fresh last night doing the same thing.
The issues started when I installed NET 1 and NET2 and the "Windows XP Update" from the "optional" updates.
I must use NET for some programs.
The file causing the problem is "ntdll.dll!RtlAllocateHeap+0x18c"

[theweeklygeek]

Tonight (Jan 3rd 2007) I have received two calls with this same issue. One from a fellow tech in a neaby town and another from a client.
Has no one else on the planet had this issue?

[nomofoshobro]

i just recently reformatted my hard drive and reinstalled XP. previously it was only sp1, but this time i went ahead and installed sp2. i was having this exact same problem so i turned off the automatic updates completely. this solved the problem. i plan to manually visit the windows update site on a regular basis until MS finds a solution. with sp1 i did not have this problem, even with automatic updates on.

here is an article that i found while looking for a solution:

http://searchwinit.techtarget.com/or...207419,00.html

if you google the problem, there is some info out there.......just no real solution other than turning the automatic windows update off. probably not a good idea for basic users, however.

[theweeklygeek]

On a old issue (the Compaq w/ XP Home Office 2k3, 1GB RAM, fresh install (November) 2.4GHz) I do have the Automatic Updates turned off. Since there are so many different office personel I cannot tell if the boot issue is here or gone. It did not occur for me today.

I can tell that Outlook is still eating almost 100% CPU every time it opens a new e-mail. If there are no attachments it is only a blip on the radar but if there is an attachment (no matter the attachment type - PDF, DOC, JPG ...) Outlook hangs for 2 to 5 minutes. Once the e-mail has been opened the e-mail will open immediatly. BUT if you close Outlook and reopen it (like after a warm or cold boot) it "scans" the document all over again.
For testing I have removed the AV and SPAM filter and this still happens.

[fredwest]

Hi theweeklygeek,

You have a lot of issues alright & a lot it MAY stem from either Office 2k3 or the .Net framework service. Let me first state my personal set up on two of my home PCs. They both run XP pro, Office XP again all patched but as I have never used Outlook I don't apply the patches for that as it seems a moot point. One of them has autoupdates turned on & this works fine. One the second, the one I use, I have updates set to manual but again I don't update Outlook. In fact I don't even install MS Outlook as part of the Office XP install.

Firstly are you using Microsoft Outlook or Outlook Express?...there is a difference.

Secondly have you ever used Mozilla Thunderbird for email?....It's just as fully featured as Outlook Express if not better. Perhaps you could do a test build of a PC, if you're in that position, & try Thunderbird & DON'T install MS Outlook as part of the office install AT ALL. I haven't used Office 2k3 but have seen Outlook Express updates for Office 2K causing whole update process to just stop and come back with an error where I work & I work in IT. We eventually stopped installing that Outlook update as a result & this solved the update never finishing issue. I realise this may not be an option for you but if you do as I mentioned above with Thunderbird etc you may see that these issues go away.

At this point I want to say I'm not asking you to change the way you work but just to try what I have suggested based on my experience. It may well all boil down to a Windows or Office update that has caused more problems than it solved.

You could also try running your normal setup WITHOUT updating Office 2K3 & seeing if all is well. If so then install the Office updates one by one & test after each one by running Outlook to find the one, if indeed this is the problem, that has caused all this.

Finally I have only heard of the .Net framework service hog 90+% of system resources only once in my organisation so I can't suggest a solution on that.

Please try the above (as I had to do once upon a time not too long ago) & let us know how you get on. In my experience it WAS an Outlook update that was causing all the problems.....

[theweeklygeek]

These computers are my clients and they are different clients.
They are all using Outlook, not OE.
I let them use what they want for e-mail and since training is an issue most of my clients use Outlook.
I agree that Microsoft is past due to create updates with issues and they could be the issue.
I also agree that alternative e-mail clients may work. Most of my clients use the multiple features in Outlook like the calendar and notes so I would probably have to support something like Lotus.
I am not sure how to stop just Outlook updates or even office updates. I had set all of these up (to the best of my RAM) to perform all Windows Updates not just Windows.

[fredwest]

Hi,

First off MS Outlook should come with an option on initial setup to set it up with NO email but still have all the contacts, calendars etc that your clients may use. I know because I’ve done this many times in my job. If you’re supporting them & all you’re clients are different it may make sense to have them use something which is reliable FOR MAIL only. Then let them have their calendar using MS Outlook if they want.

Our organisation doesn’t support MS Outlook but we inherited it from a wing of the organisation that came under our control & we told them they could use Outlook for calendars, contacts etc & nothing more….ie: no email. We use Pegasus Mail for email but Thunderbird would work just as fine too….probably better but I can’t make that call…Pegasus it is which is quite good too in fairness.

So I guess you should try to see if they’ll use Outlook for contacts & a different (more reliable IMHO) client for email or else get troubleshooting why the problems you’re having are happening.

Have you many clients in various offices in differing businesses? If so then this will be tricky but workable.

This is what I would do & have done:

If they are agreeable then back up their .pst & .pab files from MS Outlook & uninstall both MS Outlook & Outlook Express. Then re-install MS Outlook & when prompted select ‘No Email’ or similar from the install process. If they need personal folders etc they you will have to copy across the .pst &/or .pab files FOR REFERENCE ONLY.

WeeklyGeek, this may sound drastic but my organisation (and I’m sure many like them) is moving big time to Open Office from Sun & ditching MS Office altogether due to the high licencing costs.

In conclusion, if you don’t have it installed you won’t get the updates for it thus helping you out of this hole. I know this is a big deal reading all this but MS Outlook is a big deal too!

Please try what I have suggested or, if there is someone more inspired, then perhaps they can guide you better. This is the best I can do however.

I hope this helps in some small way…

[Johanna]

If they are agreeable then back up their .pst & .pab files from MS Outlook & uninstall both MS Outlook & Outlook Express. Then re-install MS Outlook & when prompted select ‘No Email’ or similar from the install process. If they need personal folders etc they you will have to copy across the .pst &/or .pab files FOR REFERENCE ONLY.

It is not adviseable to try to remove Outlook Express (an integral part of Windows). MS Outlook is the email application that is part of the MS Office software suite. Outlook Express uses .dbx folders to store mail, and the wab.exe functions as the address book.

HTH
Johanna