Windows XP Normal Mode Shuts Down Automatically

[jldodge]

My 2 1/2 year old, homebuilt system: Tyan S2665 Motherboard with Adaptec SCSI; Dual 3.2Ghz Intel Processors; 4 1GB SDRAM memory sticks (2 per CPU); Adaptec SCSI Raid 2010S; Sony Tape Backup; 2 Seagate Cheetah Ultra160 SCSI 73.4 GB drives on a Raid 0 setup (operates as my C drive); and Maxtor 300GB Atlas Ultra 320 SCSI hard drive for all of my data/content files, including My Documents

I recently downloaded some Microsoft updates and shut down the computer because it appeared to be hung after a couple of hours ... that was the turning point.

I rebooted and everytime I attempted to bootup in Normal mode, the system would automatically shutdown. I received a couple of error messages (which I no longer receive) indicating that my userinit.exe file was bad. After clicking on OK, the system would also shut down.

I can boot up in Safe Mode and seem to be able to operate (as best one can in Safe Mode) without any apparent system problems or error messages. I can even access my "data" drive and can see all the files on it without any apparent problems.

After extensive research and searches in various forums, here is what I have done:
1 - replaced the userinit.exe file with the one in my ServicePack directory
2 - completed an inplace XP SP2 upgrade
3 - run Kazpersky antivirus software and repaired the only virus found (which was described as harmless)
4 - run Spybot and eliminated all spyware it detected
5 - cleaned the clutter on my drives
6 - defragmented all drives
7 - repaired the registry with System Mechanic 7
8 - run disk doctor and automatically repaired problems

None of these fixed the problems. In some cases I have repeated these steps as my research seemed to indicate that it was sometimes necessary to do so. I have avoided a system repair/re-install because of the impact on all the programs I have on my machine.

I do have an image of the hard drive from about 6 months ago AND a tape backup (created with Windows Backup) created about 2 weeks before the problem. If I could restore the C drive (not touching my data drive) to the point that existed at my last tape backup, I would be okay.

At this point, I cannot tell if it is a SW problem or a HW problem. It would appear that it's software because I don't seem to have any problems with the HW while I am in Safe Mode and do not receive any errors during boot that would indicate a HW problem.

Would appreciate any advice/thoughts/suggestions as I am now 2 weeks without being able to use my PC for many basic activities -- bill pay, financial/budgeting activities, e-mail, etc.

Starting to get desparate but don't want to do anything rash. Thank you in advance ...

[law99]

If you think the updates did it, try removing them. Add & Remove-click box at top to show them.

[jldodge]

There were no update files for me to delete ... The box is checked. I have downloaded a number of update files in the past ... none were listed. Am I missing something?

[law99]

Strange-my PC you click-start>control panel>add/remove programs, check box at the top, scroll down, then remove recent updates. More help will show up. (usually)

[jldodge]

Must have something to do with Safe Mode ... My office PC shows all the updates as you indicated when I am in Normal Mode. Also, since I did an inplace upgrade, I wonder if that had anything to do with it? I have tried to run an Update in Safe Mode and I cannot get the update page to load. Any suggestions?

My current thinking is to do a Windows Repair (re-install if absolutely necessary), use my Acronis True Image backup from about 6 months ago (fingers are crossed on this working), and then adding the tape backup (created with Windows Backup) to get my system back to where is was before the problem. Since this appears to be risky based on my research, would those of you with more technical experience have any advice, warnings, comments, or suggestions?

Would like to get this started on the weekend if possible ... Thanks in advance ...

[whubbard]

Do you have a lot of programs installed? The safest, but not easiest way to do it would be to put the files your need on your tape back-up or other backup, and wipe EVERYTHING. Then setup your raid and start all over again. I know it takes a while...but trust me, a weekend is well enough time.

(whenever something happens to my system I like to do this, and trust me...i've probably done it a good 30 times)

...but since I've been using Vista on my machines....I have not had any problems! Yipppeee

[rwest]

Have you tried a diagnostic Sartup loading only basic drivers and software? You may be able to access the updates in control panel this way. Not sure though.

[jldodge]

I do have a lot of SW loaded with many updates. I have the original CD/file but tend to do the updates online, SO, I'm saving a clean install for the absolute last resort because of the time and effort required to find the files and load.

I'm still evaluating whether to do a "repair" and then use my tape backup OR (since I was planning to do it anyway) upgrading to Windows Vista hoping that will fix the problem.

Would appreciate other's experiences or thoughts on this problem. As always, thanks for the help.

[kev7555]

From which operating system was this one upgraded?

I have had little luck with upgrades over the years (especially upgrades from ME). A clean install is preferable.


-Kev

[jldodge]

This machine was setup originally with Windows XP Pro ... upgraded to SP2 and then subsequent updates online.

So, I would be upgrading to Vista from XP Pro ... Do you think there is a "good" chance that I might be able to fix this problem with the upgrade (since I already planned on doing it)? Note: I am able to boot into Safe Mode without any problem and run utilities, etc. successfullly.

[kev7555]

Sorry, I misunderstood. I assumed you meant the system was upgraded from a previous version of Windows. I am not a fan of upgrades in general. Having said that, I don't know if it is a good idea to upgrade a system that has problems. I would be leaning toward formatting and installing a fresh copy.

I believe Vista leaves you the option of retaining data from the old system in a file called "old windows". That may be the best option for you, so you do not have to save all of that data to external media.

-Kev

[jldodge]

At this point I am trying things with no particular plan in mind. I just ran a utility to defrag my memory. The system is a dual processor with 2GB of memory for each processor. The utility inidicates that my memory is only 3.37GB with 482MB in use. Right clicking on My Computer then properties shows the same 3.37GB. Shouldn't this be much closer to 4.0GB? Is it possible for a memory stick to be only partially bad? Could that be what is causing me to auto shutdown in Normal Mode (I seem to remember someone mentioning bad memory in one of the forums I researched)? If it is a bad stick, how do I tell which one? Trial & error? If one goes bad is that a sign that the others are not far behind?

Any and all comments would be appreciated ... Thanks

[law99]

Might be time to post a HJT LOG IN Security forum. Will it run in safe mode???

[jldodge]

Okay ... here's where I am now.

Ran the startup diagnostic ... completed without errors/messages
Ran Hijaak This ... nothing identified as a problem (followed extensive instructions including all their preparatory steps)
Reran check disk and automatically fixed errors ... successfully completed

I'm stumped!!!

Cannot identify any hardware problems, including memory (Windows XP will not read the full 4GB memory, only up to 3GB according to Crucial.com) and hard disks.

My alternatives ... would like some advice on this please ... my goal is to restore the system without having to re-install (even though many have suggested I do so) Windows and all the software I have loaded.

1) Run windows repair then restore from a tape backup completed 1 week prior to the problems

OR
]
2) Upgrade to Windows Vista (planned on doing it anyway) "hoping" that the problem will be overcome via the upgrade

Thanks for any help ...

[glc]

It does not read the full 4gb because you are using a 32 bit version of Windows. You are losing some ram to hardware addressing. You can use memtest86+ (www.memtest.org) to test the ram if you think you may have a bad module, it runs off a boot floppy or bootable CD. I would also run manufacturer's diagnostics on your hard drives.

Doing a Windows repair reinstall will not affect your data or programs - all it does is rewrite the HAL, it pretty much leaves the software and user areas of the registry alone. I would do that with a XP SP2 CD - slipstream one if necessary (you will need to press F6 to install your RAID drivers just like you did with the initial install) - then do all the post-SP2 updates again, those will be gone. You may have to reinstall some software such as your antivirus, this should be no big deal.

I would NOT upgrade to Vista till XP is running properly - upgrading a hosed system results in a hosed upgrade.

[jldodge]

OK, now I'm schitzophrenic!!!!

The advice to not upgrade was the right advice ... I may now know the real problem (even though disk repair worked fine AND the drive size is properly recognized on bootup).

When I try to bootup, I am using F8 (as I have been till now) to boot into Safe Mode. Alas, I recieve an error message that the PC cannot find my operating system. Based on my past experience, that sounds like the hard disk is fried. Am I right????

These drives are Seagate Cheetah drives and I would expect them to last more than 2 1/2 years. They did not overheat so not sure what happened. Hopefully, CDW will honor the warranty period

If that is the case, I will order some new drives.

Would hard drives that are about to go bad cause this type of situation? Why did the disk repair work without any error messages? OR Is it something else that is causing the problem? I'm stumped but willing to keep pushing since I built this machine and I am not going to give up on it...

Thanks for any input ...

[glc]

Contact Seagate to find out if there is a diagnostic for SCSI drives that can run from a boot floppy or CD. The regular SeaTools for DOS that we recommend can only do IDE and SATA drives and SeaTools for Windows won't do you any good if you can't start Windows.

If the drives test good, I'd slipstream SP2 into your CD and do the repair reinstall.

[jldodge]

Okay, here is the upshot ... the MBR was corrupt. I ended up re-installing windows and then using an image backup I made with Acronis True Image. That gets me to July 2006. I have a Windows tape backup which will move the system forward to May, 2007 at which point I will be about where I need to be. Fortunately, all of my data files are stored on a separate drive that was unaffected by the MBR corruption.

As for the advice ... all good. Some I should have listened to earlier. What blows my mind is how I was chasing all sorts of HW & SW ideas to pinpoint the problem. Anyway, I'm too old to learn another operating system. Thanks to everyone for the help/advice ...