PANIC TIME!!! NTDLR not found

[jepeters]

I finally convinced the school's business manager to let me update her computer from 98 to 2000. I've done this a couple dozen times before, but this time, I get the error:

NTLDR not found.

This is the most important computer in the school! She's got all the accounting data backed up, but I'm worried none the less.

I've done some searches on google on this (and found one fairly similar post on this forum), but they are giving conflicting advice.

A couple of posts have said to do a SYS c: command. But some people have replied to those posts by saying that this procedure will wipe out the data on the hard drive. CAN I boot with a floppy startup disk and do a SYS c: without wiping out any data on the hard drive?

Are there any better options? I don't want to have to re-install all of her programs and data if I can avoid it.

[jepeters]

Problem solved. one of the google searches DID have the answer--I had just left out one of the steps. After I went back to it I realized what I had to do and from there the fix worked.

[Psychodic_Greak]

Lucky you!

though its funny to think of what would happen if u messed up.

[jepeters]

WAIT !!! I spoke too soon. I WAS able to get back in by copying some files to a floppy disk, then installation continued and seemed to finish as normal.

But I still get ' NTLDR not found' when I try to boot from the hard drive. I can only boot to Windows 2000 if I keep that floppy disk in. The floppy disk contains 3 files : NTDLR, NTDETECT and BOOT.INI. I've copied those to C:\.

Why won't it boot from the hard drive? When I was going around in circles earlier, the computer told me I already had Win2000 installed--so I had it install in another folder to see if that would solve the problem. So, I have 2 folders with Win 2000 in them, named WINNT and WINNT2. Might this be causing a problem?

[Yaldram]

Just follow the procedure given below:

1:Bootup the system with WIN2000 cd. When prompted to setup or repair, choose Repair. In the Recovery Console, enter the following Commands:

2:Then enter the c: drive.

3:When you reach C: prompt write "Fixboot" answer "Yes".

4:Then CD \.

5:Attrib -h-s-r ntldr.

6:Attrib -h-s-r ntdetect.com.

7:copy x:\i386\ntldr c:\

8:copy x:\i386\ntdetect.com c:\

In steps 7 and 8, X is the letter of your CD-ROM drive

I am sure this solves your problem.

[jepeters]

thanks for the help, Yaldram. I just got back from the school where this computer is located and won't be going back for a couple of days. I'll try it when I get back there. (I should have known enough to check this forum again while I was over there)

[jepeters]

Yaldram's tip did not work!

Actually, I had checked the hard drive earlier--NTDETECT, NTLDR and BOOT.INI have always been in the root directory of the hard drive. The files are exactly the same as the ones on the floppy that DOES boot with no problem.

Any answer to this problem would be GREATLY appreciated. The business manager has told me she does NOT want the hassle of putting a floppy disk in each time she turns on her machine. (the payroll is on this machine--and payday isn't too far away)

[Alfie]

I don't know if the same applies to 2000,as it does to XP,but with XP,I got the same error,the solution that I used was by using the XP cd,when booted from and after all was loaded,I clicked on install,an option was offered to install or repair an existing OS on the drive,I chose repair and XP repaired the problem,if 2000 does the same,I don't know,but it's worth a shot.
XP did the repair and didn't alter anything else.
I should add this was after the first option of repair was offered,which uses the console,but rather install,see if 2000 does the same.

[Hpro]

yes it does - you are correct alfie..

[GaryRouth]

Alfie and Hpro mention that the "repair" install should work: have you tried that yet? [there is a subroutine "fixboot" that it runs that should do the trick. It will look on the hard drive, figure out where the operating systems are, and then fix the boot.ini file to point to the right places, and locate or recreate ntldr.]

But then you'll need to address the fact that you now have two copies of the OS on your hard drive, and only need one. You can try the procedure from the link below to remove one from the multiboot menu that you'll see after the repair install, and then delete the extra copy:
http://www.anandtech.com/guides/viewfaq.html?i=109

Best of luck
. . . Gary

(Make backups before trying any major changes, of course)

[jepeters]

Well, I've tried about everything today, and still no go. I did an FDISK /MBR, tried to re-install Win 2000, tried the Repair option again, the FIXBOOT command, etc etc., nothing worked.

there was no option in BIOS for anti-virus stuff. We run Norton Corporate Edition on all computers in the schools so they are up-to-date, but I ran a full scan anyway and found nothing. I updated the BIOS, but that didn't help.

Since her accounting data is saved both on CD and the server, I'm thinking about just re-formatting the hard drive and installing from scratch.


So, the big question is: Will re-formatting the hard drive get rid of the problem with the boot sector? If I can be assured that will, I'll go back there tonight and do a fresh install.

[mike breck]

If you're going down that road, I would delete the partitions, re-partition and then format.

That will ensure a new MBR is created.

[GaryRouth]

Hmm . . . did you check to see if her Win98 machine used a drive overlay program like EZ-Bios?

If the correct drive size is detected in the Bios, then no problem: you can (assuming your backups are in order) safely wipe the drive and just do a clean install of Win2000 and sleep well tonight. You might have to hunt down a few Win2000 drivers. And she'll need Win2000 versions of her software in some cases.

If the motherboard doesn't support a large drive in her system, she may have been using something like EZ-Bios to let the entire hard drive become available to the OS. If that was the case, when you used the command Fdisk/mbr then it wouldn't normally be bootable after that. At any rate: if for any reason there's an issue with her older system unable to see the entire drive after her current installation is gone (which would point to a drive overlay of some kind), you can 1) try a motherboard bios update to see if it enables larger drives 2) try an add-in PCI IDE controller card 3) re-install the drive overlay program before loading in Win2000.

I'm surprised the Win2000 "repair" install didn't work: it's usually pretty good in cases such as this.

Best of luck
. . . Gary

[p.s. just saw mike's post: I agree with deleting partitions and starting over - as long as a non-DOS proprietary partition isn't involved, such as on older Compaqs (in which case I'd leave the non-DOS Compaq partition alone and just delete the DOS[Win98/2000] partitions . . . and, just out of curiousity: any chance that there's already a PCI IDE card in that box?]

[jepeters]

No, I haven't put EZ-BIOS or anything similar on this computer.

We have 3 computers of this same model (consecutive serial numbers, even). One still has 98 on it, another was upgraded to Win 2000 over a year ago with no problems.

I updated the bios today--no change.

There's no IDE card used.

I think I'll go back there tonight and reformat. ( -40º wind chills tonight !!)

[Hpro]

Jepeters - one question - when you try to repair the computer are you booting of a floppy or the CDROM?

Anyway - I'm sure that the culprit is a error in the handling and not on the compter itself - believe me and it could be as well that the files are corrupted - did you renew them ?I think delete those files from within the recovery console then use chkdsk /p c: enter and afterthat repair the boot with the repair option Win2K gives you. if this still doesn't help then post back - there is more on this subject you can do.
Hpro

[jepeters]

i've tried various fixes using both the floppy and CD to boot. nothing worked (fixmbr, fixboot, fdisk /mbr, and a few more). I re-copied NTLDR, NTDETECT and BOOT.INI from floppy disk to C: and I also copied them from \i386 on the CD. neither helped. I tried a Recovery install from the CD at least twice.

Anyway, I formatted the hard drive last nice and did a clean install and everything is working fine now.