Dual Boot

[roy66]

I have purchased a new PC it came with Win XP OEM installed as C drive.

I have installed my Win 98 hard drive ex my previous PC as slave D.

I can alternate between both drives C (XP)and D ('98).

What do I need to do to be able to select which drive I boot into???? thereby having each independant of each other.

Surely there must be a way without the use of additional software/hardware but rather via BIOS settings or similiar.

As a novice I'm best at following SIMPLE instructions.

Thankyou
roy66

[Force Flow]

Yes. 98 on the first drive, XP on the second.

You'll need to put a boot.ini file inyour C:\ directory. Open notepad and copy this:

[boot loader] timeout=30 default=C:\ [operating systems] multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect C:\="Microsoft Windows 98SE"

Save as "boot.ini"

You should now have a boot menu at start up.

[edit] What version of XP do you have (home or pro) and what version of 98 (FE or SE)?

[roy66]

Win 98
Product version....4.10.1998
That's the best I can do on that one.

Win XP.....Home.

OK.....now let's re-check.
Will I need to change jumper settings on either hard drive or just leave them as they are already set.

Both off primary IDE.........C/master(XP Home)....D/slave(Win98)

And REALLY...is it as simple as you portray....is it REALLY?????

thanks
roy66

ps.
Would you kindly explain what each entry does/represents as I notice a portion of your entry includes partition and I'm just one of those sort guys that like to try to understand just what is happening.

Thanks
roy66

[Force Flow]

No, make 98SE needs to be the master and XP the slave. And yes, it is win98SE.

Here, I updated the boot.ini content for you:

[boot loader] timeout=30 default=C:\ [operating systems] multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Home" /fastdetect C:\="Microsoft Windows 98SE"

The "rdisk(x)partition(x)" shows where the O/S is located; which drive (starting with zero) and which partition.

"default=C:\" is the highlited O/S, so after 30sec, it automatically boots into that. "timeout=x" is the nimber of seconds you have to make your selection before it boots up to your default O/S.

As for simple, I'm not quite sure if it'll work (if the O/S's will load right). I've never tried moving the drives around with the O/S already on them.

[mike breck]

Hi guys,

I don't think that will work.

When you set up a dual-boot system with two hard drives, you normally install Win98 first on the Master hard drive and then XP secondly on the Slave hard.

When you install XP on the Slave hard drive, it recognises Win98 on the Master and puts boot files on the root of the Win98 C: drive. These files are NTLDR, NTDETECT.COM, BOOT.INI BOOTSECT.DOS

I think the easiest way to set the dual-boot is:

If using a standard 40 wire ATA cable then jumper the Win98 as Master and the XP as Slave

If using an 80 wire ATA 66/100 cable with blue (connects to motherboard), gray (connects to Slave), and black (connects to Master) connectors (which you should be using with a new Hard Drive) jumper both Hard Drives to Cable Select and put the Win98 on the black connector and XP on the gray connector.

Go into the BIOS and set the boot sequence to CD-Rom first.

Boot up with the XP CD in the CD-Rom.

When the setup up screen appears you will be asked to Repair or install - choose Install.

When the next screen appears asking if you wish to install or repair an existing installation, click on repair.

XP will see Win98 on the Master drive and setup the dual-boot by copying the proper boot files to the Win98 hard drive.

Another way of doing it is to use Hpro's method from Step 8 in this link:

http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.p...839#post150839

However the repair installation should acheive the same ends.

HTH

[Force Flow]

Ah. So you do need to do that, then. I wasn't quite sure.

[roy66]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mike breck
[B]Hi guys,

If using an 80 wire ATA 66/100 cable with blue (connects to motherboard), gray (connects to Slave), and black (connects to Master) connectors (which you should be using with a new Hard Drive) jumper both Hard Drives to Cable Select and put the Win98 on the black connector and XP on the gray connector.

OK this part of it is basic, visual and practical and starting to make sense to me...forgive me please, I am sure we can all learn something here.
What does "jumper both Hard Drives to Cable Select" actually involve? remembering that currently XP(C) is master and 98(D) is slave, though I suppose I can totally ignore those current settings and just comply with the answer to my question.......... What does "jumper both Hard Drives to Cable Select" and that will sort that out.

Once that is clear...to me, I might be game to venture forth.

Thanks guys
roy66

[mike breck]

Hi roy66,

There are two types of IDE cables in use today - the old standard 40 wire and newer ATA66/100/133 80 wire. The 80 wire cable is recommended for ATA66, ATA100, and ATA133 HDs because it supports the full performance of these newer HDs.

How can you tell the difference?

The old 40 wire cable is gray with three black connectors and the 80 wire has (usually) blue, gray, and black connectors.

Other way to do it is just count the small "bumps" on the width of the cable. Each bump is a wire, so thye 40 wire cable will have 40 bumps and the 80 wire cable will have 80 bumps. As the width of each type of cable is the same, then obviously the 80 wire cable uses finer wires and therefore the bumps are smaller.

With the old 40 wire cables you jumpered the main Master HD, with Windows, to Master and put it on the end connector of the cable. You then jumpered the Slave HD to Slave and put it on the middle connector.

With the 80 wire cable, there is no need to jumper both HDs to Master and Slave. You just jumper BOTH HDs to Cable Select (CS)and put the Primary HD (Master) with Windows on the Black connector and the the Secondary HD (Slave) on the middle Gray connector.

As you can gather, the HDs are put in exactly the same position on the cable as though you were using a 40 wire cable; however there is NO NEED to set the jumpers on the HDs to Master and Slave.

With the HDs jumpered to Cable Select, it is their POSITION ON THE CABLE which determines which one is Master and which is one Slave. So if you jumper a HD to CS and put it on the Black connector, it will be detected as the Master. Similarly, if you jumper a HD to CS and put it on the moddle, Gray connector, it will be detected as a Slave.

HDs are jumpered by using the the little jumper block on the HD. There is usually a little label on the HD that tells you the different jumper positions i.e. MA - Master, SL - Slave, CS - Cable Select.

Whether you should use a 40 wire or 80 wire cable depends on the motherboard (mobo for short)and the HDs. If the motherboard and HDs only supports ATA33 HDs, then there is nothing lost in using a 40 wire.

However, if your motherboard supports ATA66, ATA100, or ATA133 HDs, and you are using ATA66, ATA100, or ATA133 HDs, then you should use an 80 wire cable.

The motherboard manual should tell you what sort of ATA support it offers.

To summarise: If your HDs are both ATA33 HDs, jumper them to Master and Slave and just use the existing 40 wire cable in your PC.

If one or both of your HDs are ATA66 or higher (and your mobo supports ATA66 or higher), then jumper both to CS on an 80 wire cable.

Even if only one HD is ATA66 (or higher) and the other is ATA33, you will still get better performance from the ATA66 HD by using the 80 wire cable.

I hope this makes sense.

[roy66]

Originally posted by mike breck Hi roy66, How can you tell the difference? I hope this makes sense.

Man you are awesome, it is unbelievable the painstaking effort, simplicity and detail you've taken to communicate understanding.
Are you a teacher????? if not you oughta be.

I got the cable bit....... with the clarity of your previous post and omitted in my response to state that from your clear and concise description I found mine to be the 80 wire.

I've been trying to track down a manual on the HD that came with this tower...no luck yet though it is listed as Seagate ATA100 40G 7200rpm and my 98 HD is a Western Digital UATA
Mod AC28400 8.4G 5400rpm which indicates has3 jumper settings....Slave, Master, Single. (does/would this "S" single equate for CS)

Cable Select (CS) is what I don't understand....SORRY I have just re-read your posting and YEP you have that covered oh ever so clearly.........no excuse now eh.

You are giving me confidence-----don't desert me yet----as I work to reassure myself that .......However the repair installation should acheive the same ends.

Thanks a million...I think I am ready to take the plunge.....maybe just need some re-assurance on what to set the 98 jumper to.

Thanks a million
roy66
ps.
Before I go I must mention that I currently have both hard drives running on this system though not in a situation where they boot independantly........XP of course has the monopoly.....just thought I'd best make that clear.

[Confused]

http://support.wdc.com/techinfo/general/jumpers.asp

WD settings for various configurations. Cable select is shown last.
Chas

PS
From a pratical standpoint there really isn't much need for dual boot unless you are providing support and need both. I built this PC 15 months ago as a dual boot WIN98 and XP. Haven't booted into WIN98 fir over 14 months. Waste of disk space. When I reload and do a clean install I will get rid of WIN98

[roy66]

Confused


Thanks for the link

roy66

[mike breck]

Yep,

Jumper it to Cable Select.

However, before you go ahead with this, Confused has raised a good point. Are you sure you actually want or need a dual-boot system?

You could transfer any data files to the XP drive, wipe the Win98 drive, and then use it exclusively as a large data backup HD.

Food for thought.

[roy66]

mike breck

After all the praise I bestowed on you it seems confused has you in his/its grip.

At this stage yeh, I do want to give the dual boot system a go even if it is just to conquer the challenge.

The story so far is not nice, after following instructions to the best of my ability and I believe they were laid out pretty simply for almost anyone to follow...on booting up I did not receive the request to Repair or Install...instead it just booted into Win98 with incorrect Display settings that I have not been able to rectify as yet along with some other problems associated with the modem which is probably because I need to remove and replace the modem settings seeing that this tower has a different modem installed!!!.

Currently I have disconnected the IDE cable from the 98 HD and the system has booted into XP.

I appreciate the comments with regard to transfering files from 98 to XP but that is a CHALLENGE I might have to face in the future but right now I would prefer to get this Dual Boot up and running.

roy66

[mike breck]

Sorry roy66,

Never praise someone until the jobs done.

I thought you said that you already had the HD with Win98 already working on this system and you were able to boot into Win98 and XP independantly without problems?

The modem should be recognised by both versions of Windows on the one PC as the same modem. In fact, all the drivers for this PC must be present on each Windows version if you were able to
run either OS without problems.

************************************************
However, if you have never run the Win98 HD on this system before, then you should use the ENUM key trick before using it with a different system

http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9254

Then you can move it to the new system. Just make sure you have all your driver CDs, as it will redetect all the hardware.
*************************************************
It sounds as though the system booted off the Win98 HD instead of the Windows XP CD-Rom.

Did you go into the BIOS and set the boot sequence to CD-Rom first? Did you then start the PC with the XP CD-Rom in the CD-Rom Drive? If so, the PC should have booted off the XP CD-Rom and ran XP Setup instead booting straight into Win98.

The important thing to remember is, you want to boot up the system with the Windows XP CD-Rom, and take the Install>Repair route during XP setup as laid out above.

All being well, it should reinstall XP to your Slave HD (with XP already on it) and install the necessary files to dual-boot on your Master HD with Win98.

The display and modem problem on Win98, we can sort out later.

One important question: if you did boot up with the XP CD-Rom in CD-Rom Drive, did the XP installation process actually run before the PC booted into Win98?

Or did the PC simply boot into Win98?

[Confused]

In simplest terms they do not share resources. You need to have a fully functional and operating WIN98 system. That means that drivers have to be loaded for each device, for each OS independant of the other. So get 98 working and after that doing as Mike suggested should get you going.
Chas

[roy66]

I thought you said that you already had the HD with Win98 already working on this system and you were able to boot into Win98 and XP independantly without problems?

I have installed my Win 98 hard drive ex my previous PC as slave D. I can alternate between both drives C (XP)and D ('98).

OK about the praise part...it still sits right with me regardless.

Latest Info.

On bootup...........option..press any key to start from CD which is the XP.... OK that takes me to Welcome to Setup and licence agreement.
Three options here
1. Setup
2. Repair
3. Quit
Chose 1...Setup which took me through the licence agreement Accept/Decline...chose accept.

Next screen....displays
The following list shows the existing partitions etc.etc. on this computer.
Four options.
1.Setup/enter
2. Create partitionin unpartitioned space/c
3. Delete the selected partitions/d
4. Escape..outa here/F3
This screen showed
8gb disk as C.....(win98)
40gb disk as D..(XP Home)

I chose F3..outa here
On bootup it just keeps booting into 98. so I've disconnected the cable to that HD and now I am back to XP with no connection to Win 98.

What I overlooked to mention previously is that I had Win98 connected to the secondary IDE...sorry.

[mike breck]

"Next screen....displays
The following list shows the existing partitions etc.etc. on this computer.
Four options.
1.Setup/enter
2. Create partitionin unpartitioned space/c
3. Delete the selected partitions/d
4. Escape..outa here/F3
This screen showed
8gb disk as C.....(win98)
40gb disk as D..(XP Home)"

If you select "1. Setup/enter" at this stage, what options are given? Does it give an option to Repair the existing installation of XP on D:?

[roy66]

I have most cautiously ventured further by selecting option 1 and alernated between the options mentioned.... to install Win XP on a partition containing another operating system. The choices being.

C. FAT32.......Win 98
D. NTFS........Win XP

SIX (6) options were provided for D (XP)
1. Format the partition using NTFS file system.....(quick)
2. """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""FAT"""""""""""""""" (quick)
3. """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""NTFS""""""""""""""
4. """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""FAT""""""""""""""""
5. Convert the partition to NTFS
6. LEAVE

THE ALTERNATE OPTION.....C.(98)

1. da,da,da,da using NTFS fike system (quick)
2. """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
3. Leave

As I was unsure of what would ACTUALLY take place at this point in relation to both options......I opted to LEAVE.

I realise that on occasions there COULD be other options/alternatives than those mentioned..but unless someone has actually been down this road before or can categoricaly state the process/option/outcome of proceeding to follow the "format/convert" options then for me the next step is too scary....because.
I DEFINITELY DO NOT want my current files altered in any way by having XP reinstalled over them unless of course it is just the duplicate/replica/ghost of what is already on my HD.

What I have just noticed is that currently XP is on C however when I connect up Win 98 again & boot with XP cd in CD-Rom then the readouts above show C.Win 98 and D.WinXP

HOW challenging does this now become!!!!

[mike breck]

You were right to explore the options and not do anything. If you format D: then it will wipe everything on D:

I believe you are not being given the option to repair the XP installation because it is formatted in NTFS instead of FAT32.

To keep things simple, I think your "easiest" option in this case is to install a third-party Boot Manager which will enable you to boot to either Operating System.

OSL2000 is very cheap and should do the job.

http://www.osloader.com/

Unless you want to try Hpro's method or someone has a better idea.

HTH

[roy66]

Thanks Mike,

But I gotta believe that there must be a way to acheive what I'm after.....

Its probably more the challenge than the accomplishment.

Roy66

[mike breck]

Hi roy66,

Hpro's method will work - but I'm not sure of the implications of XP being formatted with NTFS. There may also be a different some way of setting it up in the Recovery Console.

However, I have kept two things in mind when working out a solution for you - simplicity and data integrity.

The fundamental way of setting up a dual-boot is to install Win98 first and then install XP. When XP is installed, it recognises Win98 and writes the necessary files to the root of the Win98 partition to enable dual-booting.

Your complication (in practical terms) is that you are really trying to install Win98 after XP has been installed. Because you are not being presented with a Repair option, the easiest way to do this is to format D: and reinstall XP. This would allow the files to be written to the Win98 on C:

However, you don't want to lose your data, so the straightforward option is out, unless you can backup your important data from D:

That's why I think a third-party Boot Manager like OSLoader would be the easiest solution. It just adds a little bit of code to the C: drive that enables you to choose the OS you wish to boot into.

However, apart from formatting D: and reinstalling XP, any other option to get a dual boot setup contains an element of risk to your data . Nothing is 100% guaranteed.

That is why, it is always important to backup really important data to another medium like CD-R, CD-RW, another HD, or tape drives.

If you do that, then if anything goes wrong, the only inconvenience you have is reinstalling your Operating Systems.

Your data is safe.

Sorry I can't be more helpful.

[roy66]

I believe you are not being given the option to repair the XP installation because it is formatted in NTFS instead of FAT32.

I appreciate the fact that my circumstances create a difficult scenario.

Had I been aware of this I would have had my tower builder to install the 98 prior to XP.
However that is past history and probably an oversight that should never have happened...the tekkies should have asked if I had a previous version or if I wanted a dual boot system when I provided them with the specs......well never mind, no one covers all the bases it seems.

Looking at the quote above...is there a possible solution/provision here.....then again maybe that comment is a guess/longshot.

Is it a relatively easy task to reformat from NTFS to Fat32 as I believe it is possible...all beyond me though.....then have another crack at it.....and if we did pull it off then reconvert XP back to NTFS just for stability purposes.

Is this crazy talk coming from a 65+ self learner computer hava goer.

With regards to Hpro's posting as best I understand it it applies to an XP setup and then installing a clean HD and then loading Win98 from that position apparently you have better control over the settings that are required.

Thanks for revisiting this post I appreciate more than words can express the patience and simplicity with which you have engaged yourself.

havagreatweek
roy66

[mike breck]

Hi again Roy66,

Only one problem - you can convert FAT32 to NTFS with minimal risk of losing data - but - you cannot (as far as I know) convert NTFS to FAT32.

Why are you against using a third-party Boot Manager? Before we had all these fancy W2K/XP Operating Systems, that's what most people used to Dual Boot - and very sucessfully.

I know it's $25 but because the program seems so easy to use, it seems like $25 well spent.

HTH

[roy66]

Its probably more the challenge than the accomplishment.

[mike breck]

One last stab at this Roy66.

Follow exactly the same procedure as above till you get to this point.

"Next screen....displays
The following list shows the existing partitions etc.etc. on this computer.
Four options.
1.Setup/enter
2. Create partitionin unpartitioned space/c
3. Delete the selected partitions/d
4. Escape..outa here/F3
This screen showed
8gb disk as C.....(win98)
40gb disk as D..(XP Home)"

Now try "selecting" the XP installation "40gb disk as D..(XP Home)" and pressing R to start the Repair.

Can the XP installation be selected in this screen?

Does it give you the option to Repair by pressing R?

**************************************************
If it does "not" give you the option to Repair, then don't go any further.
**************************************************

[roy66]

Mike,

Your persistence/tenacity amazes me...I thought by now you would have closed the book on this one.....thanks for your commitment to this posting.

As previously stated I have pulled the cable on the 98 disk but still have the tower open for such a posting as this.

I will venture forth again later on and let you know the outcome........OH! one major oversight....................Backup, Backup, Backup.

thanks
roy66

[Markoman01027]

Mike Breck,

I always read that it was best to install Windows 98SE and then XP, otherwise 98SE would kill the MBR if you installed it second.

My question to you is, why do you need to run the Repair installation? Is it because he installed XP first and then Windows 98SE?

[roy66]

Mike Breck,

I always read that it was best to install Windows 98SE and then XP, otherwise 98SE would kill the MBR if you installed it second.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Markoman01027

WELCOME

Hopefully your entry and questioning will prove to provide interesting and informative dialouge.
----------------------------------

My situation is that my tower came loaded with XP.
I want to install the 98 data loaded HD from my previous tower and be able to dual boot , though it seems more like duel boot.

It is understood that the preffered procedure is to install 98 first then XP however things have not worked out that way and I am seeking a way around that without 3rd party soft/hardware.

I am not convinced that I have presented an impossible scenario, most probably it is just that the/a solution has not yet surfaced.

I could be wrong but I believe in possibilities.
roy66

[Markoman01027]

Roy66,

That was just the way that the users suggested which would work the best way. If XP was installed first, and you want to load up 98SE. You will need to use Hpro's technique here, or what Mike Breck suggested from above. Here is the link. His suggestions and Hpro's technique is really your last resourt, unless you use a third party boot manager.

http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.p...threadid=24831

That deals with XP already loaded and want ME to be installed. Not sure if it deals with 98SE. But check it out.

[roy66]

Hpro's technique......been there but to the best of my understanding that post relates to a formatted/empty HD.

roy66