No audio after Asus on 98 upgrade

[estevek]

I just completed an Asus P4PE motherboard upgrade and I can't get any audio. When I click on SoundMax Audio Driver and Installation on the Support CD drivers menu, I get the following response:

"Operation System is not supported by this software"

This doesn't make sense since there are windows 98 Soundmax audio drivers on Asus site.

The system seems to indicate that there aren't any playback or record devices. The Realtek Audio driver is installed and looks fine.

I'd appreciate any advice in solving this.

[andyms18a]

is the sound onboard or a pci sound card if its onboard go to the bios and make shore its enabled then reboot the computer and see if windows finds it if not right click my computer go to properties device manager and look for problam devices right click the device and select properties and see whot the prob is

[GaryRouth]

Did you have a Realtek audio device on the motherboard you replaced with the P4PE? If so, try uninstalling anything related to Realtek in your Add/Remove, then try a run of RegClean 4.1 (it was updated for Win98) http://download.com.com/3000-2094-881470.html?tag=list, reboot to Safe Mode and remove any sound devices, download the latest SoundMax Win9x drivers http://www.asus.com.tw/support/downl...ModelName=P4PE (you'll have to click on drivers and advance a page or two), enter Bios Setup & ensure the onboard sound is Enabled, then install the SoundMax

See if that works. SoundMax is for an ADI-1980 chip [most Realtek chips start with "ALC" or "RT"] So my guess is that it's a leftover from the previous motherboard. [Note: Realtek also makes some very popular network chips, though your P4PE is listed as having a BroadCom chip]

. . . Gary

[estevek]

Thanks for all the advice. I'll post what I find when I get a chance to try things.

[estevek]

No audio control in bios.
Device manager says there's no problem with Realtek audio driver.
The RealTek comes with the Asus motherbd. It is the RealTek AC'97 driver. I installed after doing the ENUM delete trick which caused a complete driver reinstall. I also downloaded the latest and greatest driver from Asus, but it unfortunately did not do the trick.
It acts as if there isn't any audio hw. If there was only a way to test the audio hw without the OS.

[GaryRouth]

Just to make sure we're talking about the same chips onboard, open the case up, and look closely (with a magnifying glass if necessary) at the chip next to your 3rd PCI slot (between the 3rd PCI slot and the back of your case). It should say ADI 1980 on it. Don't know how you got an Asus P4PE with a Realtek AC'97 on it, unless they've released different versions that don't show on their website.

If it is an ADI 1980 chip, you've got to get those Realtek drivers out. [using Safe Mode to remove device, and a run of RegClean]

If it's a Realtek chip after all, no great loss = they're both fairly capable of decent sound for general use (probably not for advanced gaming, though) [I just wish the Asus website would mention the Realtek chip as an option]. The Bios menu that holds your audio configuration is under "Advanced" (a right arrow will get you there from the opening screen). Move your arrow down a few items to "I/O Device Conguration", then press your Enter key to see the submenu. Arrow down again to "OnBoard AC'97 Audio Controller". (the GamePort and MIDI options are just below this, too). The Default settings are "Auto" for the AC'97, "200h-207h" for the GamePort, and "Disabled" for the MIDI. This should also be in your manual in chapter 4.

There are a few other things to look at as far as the audio on the P4PE. There's a connector for a digital out, which if you have installed it I believe will need special speakers capable of that output [I haven't built a system for anyone with enough money to get anything quite this nice]. And there are two jumpers for the front audio connectors (labeled LINE OUT F ...) that if you have removed the jumpers require you to attach you speakers to the audio out connectors on the front of your case (...of course, you'd have to have attached the audio front cable, too). If you aren't using the front connectors, but the jumpers aren't on the 'Line Out Front' pins, you can use any standard jumper: just make sure to get them on the right pins. These settings are also in chapter 4 of your motherboard manual.

Best of luck, hope that gets you going.
. . . Gary

[estevek]

Gary, I appreciate your advice. This is what I found out:

There is an ADI chip there. What drivers would it use? Why would the Realtek drivers install without a problem?

I found the BIOS audio i/o setting. It was in auto mode.

Also, I never installed the digital cable and connector, and the front audio cables connectors are jumpered.

Finally, when Windows does its automatic hardware discovery, it identifies it as a Realtek AC'97 and it wants the Realtek AC'97 Audio driver. Apparently, Windows finds what it wants when I point it to the Asus drivers.

[estevek]

I got an email back from SoundMax and it looks like the answer to my problem. I think this thread is going to be a keeper, because I 'm sure other people have this problem:

Steve, My best guess is that you are running Windows 98 Gold ("First Edition", or sometimes just called "Win98") which requires VxD drivers. On their website Asus should be specifically referring to our driver as "Win98SE" or "Windows 98 Second Edition" compatible. Unfortunately it appears that they're listing it as "95/98/ME/2K/XP" which is not true... Microsoft changed driver architecture from Win98 Gold to Win98 SE, moving from "VxD" to "WDM", and confusing everyone in the process. WDM is used for 98SE, Millennium (ME), 2000 (2K), XP and newer OS'. VxD was used with older OS' such as Win95, Win95 OSR2 and Win98 Gold. You can determine which version of Windows 98 you have by right-clicking on "My Computer" and choosing "Properties". If you have Win98SE the 'General' tab of the panel that comes up will specifically say "Windows 98 Second Edition". I will check with the person here who deals with Asus to determine if they are releasing a VxD driver for the P4PE, in the meantime, please check to see if you have Win98 or Win98SE. Thanks, SoundMAX@analog.com

[GaryRouth]

Hi again

Sorry I haven't answered in a while, my house is getting worked on (out with the falling-apart galvanized pipe, in with the new copper pipes --- also in with a lot of cleanup work!) . . .

That's a curious situation with the P4PE you've got. I suppose it's possible that they could make a motherboard with a sound chip onboard that doesn't have any Win98 compatible drivers, but it does seem odd: since Win98 isn't THAT old [though it might be getting close! ]

Just to see, you might want to browse the Asus driver CD that came with the P4PE, and see if you can find the date & version of the SoundMax drivers on it. If they are the same as the one on the Asus site, then they are WDM drivers just like the e-mail explains (it's not too surprising, since the file is called "adiwdm_3520.zip" ADI- the sound chip, WDM - the Windows Driver Model, & the four digit # is the driver version...) Really strange situation, since the subtitle of the file lists it as "Win95/98/Me/2000/XP", but if you look at the little area on the download page that shows what operating system the driver is meant for (the little blue and underlined "OS") only "WinME/Win2k/WinXP" are listed = no mention of any Win98 or Win98se at all.

I think contacting Asus directly might be a good idea. It seems that the SoundMax installation program meant what it said in it's error message. I would think that there's a driver somewhere that will work with Win98 for that chip, but unfortunately SoundMax doesn't release "generic" or "reference" drivers, but insists that the board manufacturers handle the drivers availability.

The fact that Win98 detects the audio as a Realtek chip is interesting - but unfortunately I haven't found any useful information yet as to why it's happening. (Perhaps SoundMax licensed a Realtek design & adapted it?) Win98 probably doesn't flag the device in Device Manager because it's not causing any conflicts. . . but I'll keep looking around here and there -- since you've found such an interesting puzzle here.

If anyone else out there has more info on this, please jump in & enlighten us. . .

. . . Gary

[estevek]

Gary, I hope things are going well with your pipe repair. I'm glad they're using lead free solder these days.

Before I contacted SoundMax, I contacted the Asus helpdesk and after asking me a 100 general questions about my system, the best they could advise me was to make sure my speakers were working (chuckle) and that my mutterboard wasn't grounding out. (I'd think I'd have bigger problems if it was.)

Today, I brought the SoundMax email to the attention of the Asus helpdesk. They basically said that SoundMax was WRONG, Windows 98 should be fine as long as it's the most up to date, and they want me to install all the drivers from scratch. Before I entertain doing that, I'm going to ask SoundMax if they found anything out at their end. I might also just try to scrounge up a 98 SE update disk. Finally, I just came across an MS KB article about 98 having audio problems when audio drivers use a certain memory range. I'm going to have to study that more.

Regards,
estevek

PS: If anybody is using a P4PE and 98 with no audio problems please let me know. Thanks.

[GaryRouth]

Hi again -

I was beginning to wonder if you could be the only one on the planet with this issue, when I finally found a tiny tidbit on one of the "expertsexchange" boards, where a fellow with a problem with the SoundMax onboard resolves it by switching from bios version 1003 to 1002. Here's the relevant part of the quote: " it turns out thet the P4PE bios 1003 and 1004 lead to a problem with the agp/pci timing, and so by installing a previous bios (1002) the sound device was recognised" . . . this fellow was also having the device misrecognised, so perhaps the bios strategy (either newer or older than your current one) might bring a nice result. You'll have to remove the Realtek drivers first before you try this one.

I'll keep my digital fingers crossed
. . . Gary

[estevek]

Gary, I'll keep that BIOS tip in mind if other things fail. However, I emailed SoundMax back telling them what Asus told me and the following email below is their reply. They seem very knowedgeable about the VxD vs. WDM issue and I also finally found an MS KB article (285349) about WDM that confirms what they're saying. From their response, I 've developed a high regard for SoundMax's support. Asus's helpdesk seems, however, to leave a lot to be desired.

Right now, I'm keeping my eyes open for a copy of the Windows 98 SE Update and I might start a new thread on it. Thanks to you and andyms18a for your willlngness to help.

Unfortunately I can guarantee that is the problem. Win98 and Win98SE are not the same, and do require different drivers. Our installer, as do many other installers, specifically checks the version of the OS and rejects those that it is known to not work with. I've talked w/ our Asus contact and he says that there are several technical reasons that they are not going to support VxD drivers on this platform (or any platforms going forward). I've contacted Asus directly and via our contact here regarding removing the "95/98" listing from their website for these drivers. I'm afraid that short of updating to Win98SE (or some other later OS) there is no way that I can help you get your audio working. Microsoft has recently released Win98SE into the public domain in China, and discontinued all support for the OS, so there are definitely copies floating around. While I certainly don't advocate piracy, you may find someone who has a copy laying around for a PC that has been thrown away or broken that they would be willing to give you. The migration path from Win98 to Win98SE is fairly painless (I performed it on my nephew's computer a few weeks back in order to get a USB NIC working). It takes about an hour depending on your computer's speed, and there've been no visible issues with compatibility or data loss that we've seen... Good luck, SoundMAX@analog.com -----Original Message----- From: Steve Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 10:51 PM To: Soundmax Subject: Re: SoundMAX support (ES) Importance: High I'm definitely using 98 and not 98SE. I brought your email to the attention of the Asus helpdesk and asked them if they had any VxD drivers. I was surprised when they basically disagreed with the VxD vs. WDM analysis, but they couldn't explain why I got the error message about the operating system not supporting the software. Were you able to find out anything through your contacts? Thanks. Steve

[GaryRouth]

Just like the SoundMax tech mentions, it really is a painless upgrade. In fact, if you can't find an upgrade disk, any Win98se disk would do = you'd then do an "over-the-top" install, renaming win.com to win.bak, starting setup, and choosing C:\Windows as the install directory (rather than C:\Windows.000). There were a few threads on the forum with folks looking for Win98se disks. One forum member found a Win98-Win98se upgrade disk in a bargain bin at Radio shack for $5 or $10 (it was a throw in with a USB camera!). Seems like the Win98-Win98se disk (it was somewhat of a specialty disk) should be the cheapest, if you can find one.

Maybe you could forward the SoundMax replies to Asus so that any other Asus P4PE owners in the same spot won't have to go through this struggle. (assuming Asus relabels the drivers on it's website).

Glad you're close to enjoying that new motherboard
. . . Gary

[estevek]

I saw that posting about finding the win 98se update in a radio shack clearance bin, but I think that was a lucky break. I didn't find it at my Radio Shack.

I posted the SoundMax responses on the trouble ticket I have open with Asus, but I don't think they look at the trouble tickets unless you call them up.