Hard disk is type 00

[cutiebird]

I have a BE6 motherboard with ATA66 hard disks on IDE3 and IDE4 and an UDMA33 hard disk (#3) on IDE2 as slave to the HP9100i with the CD-ROM as master on IDE1.

Windows 98SE says the hard disk #3 is type 00 (removable media not inserted) so that means that programs such as HDTach and Partition Magic and EZ-S.M.A.R.T. don't see it as a hard disk.

I have tried it on IDE1 and IDE2 as master and slave with and without the CD-ROM and burner. No combination will work. I have changed entries in the BIOS to manually enter the hard disk details but that did not help.


System

Windows 98SE
Celeron SL32A 300a (98360791) @450
128Mb RAM in BE6 MB
WinFast 3D S320 II Ultra
12.5Gb DeskStar - IDE3 master - boot disk
20Gb Barracuda - IDE4 master
6.4Gb IBM - IDE2 slave
Sound Blaster Value
NetComm 56Ultra SVD
ASUS 50x CD-ROM - IDE2 master
HP CD-Writer 9100i - IDE1 master

[kraken]

After doing some searching it seems that you need drivers for the High Point HPT366 UDMA 66 controller.

http://www.abit-usa.com/english/
For the BIOS update which updates the motherboard BIOS and the onboard udma66 to ver 1.21, and the win98 driver for the high point chip (HOTROD).

[cutiebird]

I am running v1.21 and have been for 6 over 6 months. It has nothing to do with BIOS or HPT366 driver. My two ATA66 hard disks are 100% ok. It is the non-ATA66 hard disk on IDE1 or IDE2 that is the problem.

[kraken]

Cutiebird

Windows 98SE says the hard disk #3 is type 00 (removable media not inserted)

I took it that IDE3 (#3) was part of the DMA66 controller and was not being seen properly.

Never slave an IDE hard disk to a CDROM (or varient).

It is very hard to give specific answers so forgive any anomolies to that which you know.

To troubleshoot use the boot disk (Hard drive) alone then add each ide connectable device to find out which is causing the anomolie (first step).

I will assume that it is the 6.4Gb IBM disk that is giving you the problems. Sounds like a BIOS irregularity, detect that disk without the other BOOT hard disk available and use a bootable floppy, Disable the U66 controller to see if the board will recognise it on the standard controller.

You have four IDE channels, standard 1&2 (<=udma33) and 3&4 (>=udma66). IRQ conflicts may come into play.?

[cutiebird]

I used #3 simply to refer to the 6.4Gb hard disk.
I mentioned that I have tried the hard disk on IDE1 and IDE2 as master and as slave without the CD-ROM and without the burner -same result.

I have tried it without the two other hard disks. I have also tried it with the bus master and standard IDE controller - same result. All IRQs are taken and I do not have a conflict.

I can use the hard disk and Norton has no problems with it. The problem lies with the three applications mentioned and with several other apps.

My original aim was to use Boot Magic to dual boot - either the current boot disk on IDE3 (master) or any hard disk I might attach to IDE1 or IDE2.

[HAL9000]

Silly question here, but if you go into your device manager and click on the properties for your hard drive, then on settings, is the "removable disk" box checked off? If so, uncheck it and reboot.

[kraken]

Cutiebird
Go with HAL as he may have more answers than that of this humble tech.

I cannot access this board for testing and cannot give you definites.

[cutiebird]

I'm more experienced with computers than that.
No, that box is not checked.
The exact entry is "GENERIC IDE DISK TYPE00" which is in itself odd because normally it does not say generic but give a more accurate and detailed description of model followed by TYPE80.

[kraken]

When trying this drive on its own can you get a valid recognition of the drive on ANY channels.

[cutiebird]

No, it is always TYPE00.
I'll use Norton DiskEdit to see what the MBR says.

[kraken]

http://www.storage.ibm.com/techsup/h...ea/dheajum.htm

The above link is to the IBM site for the jumper settings for the IBM 6.4Gb deskstar drive.

At the bottom of the page is a note which states that some systems can interprete the default settings (16 logical heads) for drives greater than 4Gb as 0 heads with zero capacity (removable drives have zero capacity until you put some media in them). There are alternate setting on this page to set the drive to 15 heads which may prove to solve the problem.

If the drive is not a deskstar could you give us the exact specifications for this drive.

[Edited by kraken on 12-23-2000 at 09:57 AM]

[cutiebird]

The 6.4Gb drive is an IBM DHEA--36481. It was partitioned and formatted using the same versions of FDISK and FORMAT as the two ATA-66 drives. The OEM ID is MSWIN4.1 and the media descriptor byte is F8 hex for all three drives.

I have tried the drive alone on IDE1 and IDE2 as both 15 and 16 heads and as master to CD-ROM. It does not matter what jumper setting I use, or if the CD-ROM and burner are included or not, or on the setting in the BIOS - auto or user defined - Windows still sees it as TYPE00.

[kraken]

Sorry Cutiebird I am at a loss on this one.

All indications point to the device having a fault in the circuitry.

This drive will need to be tested on an alternate machine (to see if the different BIOS can identify) to verify if this is correct.

[cutiebird]

The drive formats without errors and shows no problems with ScanDisk nor Norton. It also passes the IBM Drive Fitness Test. I have full access to the drive in DOS and Windows and have no problems reading and writing to it. However, it is not seen by at least three applications as a hard disk because Windows says it's TYPE00.

[fordvan]

I had an old Maxtor that was identified the same - Generic type 00 so I used the Maxtor installation disk (Maxblast) to setup and install the drive then it was identified as a type47.
I beleive IBM has a similar program - worth a try !

[kraken]

Cutie bird

I realise that you can still use the hard drive for normal use. (you said so earlier.)

The fact that the programs that cannot be used are disk utilities that work at the very low level of the drive indicates to me that the drive has (for want of a better description) amnesia.

The fact that the BIOS cannot identify the drive and nor can windows, leads me to believe that the drive ID pattern has been somehow scrambled.

Effectively the drive doesn't know what it is and any program that asks it will get a "Don't know" from the drive.

I am assuming that you are running the drive under manual configuration in the BIOS and BIOS is also reporting it as type 00.

[cutiebird]

To clear up one point, I said it did not matter what i did in the BIOS - it makes no difference to Windows if I set it to auto or to user and enter the drive details manually - the details detected and displayed by the BIOS on booting are always correct.

Yes, it is apps that access the drive at a low level that can't detect it. I have looked at the MBR and it is not scrambled and seems correct.

I have downloaded the latest versions of EZ-SMART, Drive Guide and DFT (Drive Fitness Test) from IBM site. The new ver 5.0 of EZ-Smart does detect and identify the drive correctly. The Drive Guide says it is ok as does the DFT.

I remember once, about a year ago, having type80 but never type47 in the Device Manager, but it may have been one of the ATA-66 drives that I had moved to IDE1 in order to run DFT.
The only other thing is that the ATA-66 drive on IDE4 (E: and F and the 6.4Gb drive (G have logical partitions. The boot disk on IDE3 has drives C: and D: If I didn't do that then Windows would make the 6.4Gb drive D: and the second partition on the boot disk would be E:,which creates all sorts of problems. When I boot to DOS using a boot floppy the 6.4Gb disk becomes C: and the ATA-66 boot disk then becomes D: and E:. Confusing? yes - remember I have a BE6.

[kraken]

Ok then the drive is ok as the bios and the new ezsmart can detect it.


Then it is with the software that the problem lies. As windows is reporting it as type 00 I would try an overinstall to see if this can correct this.

To be honest this one has me a bit stumped as to the cause.

[HAL9000]

I've been reading along with this one for some time... and yea... stumped. Actually, if you haven't already, this is what I would try before re-installing. Up above, I asked if it was something silly as the box being checked for removable disk to which you said "no". Check the removable disk box, reboot, uncheck the removable disk box, reboot again and see if it clears it up. If not, I agree with kraken, try an install over top.

[kraken]

I've been here there and everywhere on the net trying to find a clue as to what would cause this (no luck). I would almost consider the fact that the drive is an extended drive only as a possibility, and something not liking it.

[cutiebird]

Yes it is weird. The latest info makes it even stranger.

The 6.4Gb drive is a logical partition because that is the only way to stop Win98SE from making it drive D: (Boot partition is C: regardless of what channel it is on and D: is the first in the IDE order) and the second partition on the boot disk as E:. I can make it TYPE47 if it is NOT a logical partition but then Windows 98SE has it as D:.

I removed the 6.4Gb drive. I moved the boot drive from IDE3 to IDE1 and it became TYPE80. I formatted drive C: and installed Windows ME. I then put the 6.4Gb drive back on IDE2 and it became TYPE47. I moved the boot drive back to IDE3 but Windows ME made the 6.4Gb drive D: and TYPE00, and the second partition on the boot disk E:.

So, the next step is to reformat the 6.4Gb drive as an extended partition and not a logical one and see what ME does. Also, HAL9000, I'll try whhat you have suggested.

One reminder, my motherboard is a BE6.

[kraken]

To create a logical drive you need to have an extended partition. There is no such thing as a logical partition.

Partitions are either primary or extended. there can only be one drive on a primary partition but there can be many logical drives on an extended one. The active primary partition is used for booting. This goes a long way to explaining what is happening here. As the drive can be recognised if it has a primary partition on it then it is the fact that it is an extended partition only with a logical drive that gives us our clue.

When I tried to install my old hard drive as an extended partition for just the reasons that you are, it would not show up in windows.

I had to install a non active primary partition to allow the drive to be seen. It is drive D:.

This is due to hardware incompatabilities (drive) and windows.

I will attempt to install my own 2nd hard drive as an extended partition only with 2 logical drives and will see if I can make it work. (bet I get type 00)

[cutiebird]

The Microsoft kb article Q51978 clearly says there is no problem with Windows recognising a hard disk with no primary partition. There could be several other reasons, kraken, why it did not work in your case. There are several ways to stop a drive letter from appearing in Windows Explorer.

An extract from Q51978:

Listed below are some sample partitioning schemes for two
40-megabyte (MB) hard disk drives and their resulting drive letter
assignments:

Drive 1:
C: 20 MB primary MS-DOS partition
E: 20 MB logical drive 1 in extended MS-DOS partition

Drive 2:
D: 20 MB primary MS-DOS partition
F: 20 MB logical drive 1 in extended MS-DOS partition

Drive 1:
C: 20 MB primary MS-DOS partition
D: 20 MB logical drive 1 in extended MS-DOS partition

Drive 2:
E: 20 MB logical drive 1 in extended MS-DOS partition
F: 20 MB logical drive 2 in extended MS-DOS partition

So, with my version of Win98SE I managed to get the drive letters in the order I wanted them but ended up with a type00, but only when the boot disk was not on IDE1. With the boot disk on IDE1 the 6.4Gb becomes type47, so the problem is not that I only have a logical partition on it.

Now that I'm running ME I still have type00 but also have scrambled drive letters.

Partition Magic can convert partitions to be logical partitions. I have 3 hard drives and I got the drive letters in the order I wanted them with Windows 98SE by making the two partitions on the 20.5Gb disk (IDE4) logical partitions and the 6.4Gb as G: even though it was on IDE1 and therefore the first in the IDE chain to be assigned a drive letter after the active primary DOS partition. My system ran like that for over 12 months.

Now I should continue this thread in Windows ME forum
because I now have scrambled drive letters even though there has been no change in the partitions. The old active primary partition is still the boot partition after the reformat and installation of ME.

[jmatt]

See if any of these help .

http://www.sover.net/~whoi/WinUtils2.html

Media Test A program which will test your hard drive.
It does a non-destructive surface scan to find out if
you have physical or logical problems with your hard
drive. This allows you to determine the best means of
recovery. You will also know where the damage is on
the drive. The program gives you a choice to test the
drive through the BIOS or directly through the controller
by using the mt/d command (media test direct). Media Test
will allow you test the contoller as well. The program
gives you that option so you can test drives larger than
8.4 gigs or if the BIOS does not even recognize the drive
is there. This program provides a quick effective method
of determining the status of your drive. Works with all
drives: IDE, SCSI. Media Test also tests floppies,zip
drives,virtually any type of media. Single DOS disk.
Quick, effective drive evaluation tool.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Try using this Boot Disc .
http://www.startdisk.com/Web2/ubd/ubd.htm
http://www.startdisk.com/Web2/ubd/Clean.htm

[kraken]

Cutiebird

As this thread gets longer the picture gets a little clearer (I think).

Your motherboard has two IDE controllers one ata33 and one ata66. When you put the boot drive onto the primary ide (ATA33)port and have the 6.4Gb drive on the secondaty ata33 port it shows up as it should. When you put the boot drive back onto IDE3 (ATA66) there is no longer a primary drive on the ata33 controller.

Now as there are two controller chips on board each may require a primary partition to be able to recognise extended partitions. In your examples you state that you ran the 20Gb drive as two logical drives in an extended partition on IDE4 and the 6.4Gb as G: even though it was on IDE1. Where was the boot disk as you have also said that you moved one of the ata66 drives over to IDE1 to get something to work. The ata66 controller may not require a primary partition to work as it is newer hardware than the ata33 controller.

Your example as to hard drive configurations using 20Mb hard drives (and I saw that while doing some research for this thread) uses a single hard drive controller Primary and secondary and always with a primary partition as part of the equation.

Slave the 6.4Gb drive to the 20Gb non boot drive on the ata66 controller (yes I know this will hamper the performance of the 20Gb drive.)

Use IDE 1 & 2 for the cd rom and writer respectively.

There probably is good reason why my installation did not work and I did not try to resolve the issue as drive assignments are of no importance to me.

[cutiebird]

I ran the system with the 6.4Gb on IDE2 as G: (TYPE00)and the 12.5Gb boot disk on IDE3 as C: & D: and the 20.5Gb on IDE4 as E: & F: for over one year with WIN98SE. Yes, kraken, the problem has taken me a long time to solve. This is about the third time I've tried to find a solution in this forum.

I don't care about the 6.4Gb being TYPE00 now I have a problem with Windows ME not keeping the drive letters in the order I had them. I don't install all my apps on the boot disk. Some that don't write to the registry are installed on the 20.5Gb disk. The ftp server is configured for the 20.5Gb disk as E: & F:. It's easy to change but it gets messed up again if I remove the 6.4Gb disk. It causes no problems when it's G:.

The BE6 uses the HPT366 controller for ATA66 and it is not a very good solution. The two alternatives are to add a controller card or to upgrade the MB so I have chip support for ATA66.

Yes, it seems the bus master IDE controller needs a primary partition. I don't want to slave the 6.4Gb to either ATA66 disk. I can live with the TYPE00 but I'd like my drive letters back in order with ME. Perhaps I should continue this tread in the Windows ME forum.

[kraken]

Sorry that the perfect solution is not available to you.

Good luck with ME.