Need some installation help...

[Panama Red]

Here's the scenario so far. Dell Dimesion XPS D266 PII w/Maxtor 4Gb hdd. Had Win95 which customer claimed corrupted. He had 98se he wants installed. First, removed hdd and cleaned case, installed hdd in my XP machine and saved a couple files. Ran WD Dig Lifeguard, said bad sectors, not repairable. Combined the three partitions using Part. Magic 8.0 and formatted to Fat 32. Returned hdd to Dell, reset bios to boot from hdd, loaded 98se. When it finished install and restarted, hung on blue screen with hour glass symbol. Power off, restart, same problem. Went to plan B. Changed bios boot sequence to fdd, install 98se boot disk, fdisk to delete all partitions, then created new Fat 32 active partition. Next, format c: Gets to 1% and faults. Shutdown and reboot with Maxtor diagnostics floppy installed. Ran extended tests, hdd passed. Did full format (zeros to hdd?) restart to boot disk, fdisk again, format c: failed again. Changed boot sequence and booted from 98se CD, says hdd needs to be formatted, select y to reformat. Does 1% and stops just like from boot disk. Where did I go wrong?

[fudtone]

sounds like your machine is eating HD's

do a clean install onto the HD from another machine and try moving it too this unit.

[GaryRouth]

Hi Panama

You've probably fixed it up by now - - I didn't notice this thread until recently. But just in case you haven't: I've put the links for that model's Tech/Maintenance Guide and for its Dell Diagnostics download page, which might tell you what part is responsible for stopping the format at 1%. The diagnostics can check cd-rom, memory, and hard disk: one of which would seem to be the culprit.

I'm a little unsure about the drive situation. Was the original drive a WD - and it was returned to Dell? And replaced with a Maxtor? Or was the original also a Maxtor, and replaced by another? [used or new?] Or are you still using the original Maxtor, and it's been serviced? ---> The drive would naturally be the prime suspect, followed by the cd-drive, and the memory.

Hopefully, you've got it fixed already, and I'm just practicing my typing
. . . Gary

manual - http://docs.us.dell.com/docs/systems/dalex/0176c.pdf
diagnostics - http://support.dell.com/filelib/Devi...T_PII_XPS_D___

[p.s. ...just in case the Partition Magic mbr is still on the drive, boot with a Win98 disk, and try fdisk/mbr and then delete partitions, and recreate a Primary Dos Partition. Then let Win98 Setup format it with FAT32 for you.]
[p.s.#2 - (always forget several things) - make sure your hard drives are Cable Select on that model, just in case the jumpers moved around in the troubleshooting]

[Panama Red]

Thanx for the responses guys. Just got home from a long work day and haven't got back to the Dell-monster yet. I'm a little hesitant to try loading 98 on one system and transferring to another. I've read the Enum thread and that seems like a lot of work, too. To answer your questions, Gary, I believe this is the original hdd, a Maxtor. The only reason WD came in the picture is because I used the WD Digital Lifeguard software to test the Maxtor when I had it in my XP machine. The WD software said "bad sector" and "not repairable" while the Maxtor software said the drive is ok. Checked the jumper and it has been set to CS all along. When I did fdisk the 2 other times, I deleted all partitons and other instructions from this link that somebody posted a while ago.

http://www.waynescomputerworld.com/cleaninstall.html

Do you think the PM mbr could still be there? I did find a bad CD rom. Turns out the guy tried to fix/clean it before I got it. I've got a good used one that's working for the download. The only spare hdd I have on hand is an 80Gb WD jb. I'm thinking of putting that in the XP machine and formatting a 4Gb Fat 32 partition on it and try it in the Dell to see if it will load. Any thoughts?

[Panama Red]

Ok, more info. Removed Maxtor, installed 80Gb WD with 4Gb C: partition formatted to Fat 32 using XP machine. Installed 98se. Restarted ok, but stalled before loading drivers. Got the following message displayed:

"You started your computer with a version of MS-DOS incompatible with this version of windows. Insert a startup diskette matching the verison of windows and then restart. The system has been halted. Press Ctrl + Alt + Del to restart your computer."

Would not respond to Ctrl Alt Del. Restarted to boot disk, format c:, restarted to CD rom and reloaded 98. Went the same distance and displayed the same halt message. Guess I'll research the Dell site til someone has an idea.

[GaryRouth]

Hi again - been busy getting the kids ready for the big Halloween parade at school tomorrow

You'll go crazy trying to use the WD jb with that old Dell, but it shouldn't have hurt anything. I rarely (okay = never) format hard drives in other machines and then move that whole kaboodle over. It's so much easier to just have it work in the system it's supposed to. It's going to have to work it in anyway. The error message pretty much meant what it said "Panama, why dost thou have this DOS before me?" had it been able to figure out the geometry of a drive from a few generations in the future, it might have added some phrases about that too.

With the old Maxtor in, try
1) boot with a Win98 bootdisk from the matching Win98 version (2nd Edition)
2) fdisk/mbr
3) fdisk - delete all partitions
4) fdisk - create Primary Dos Partition, mark it active.
5) reboot with the Win98se CD & let Setup format the Maxtor with FAT32

Now that you've got a working CD-rom it should go well. The other errors look like it was just the Dell wondering what planet the jb came from.

If my advice only makes things worse, you have full priviledges to humble me with scathing sarcasm - [10 years later: Oh, RIGHT, Gary, just like you said about that XPS! . . . ]

See what happens when you snack on Halloween candy a day too soon? I'll have to go find a chocolate antidote somewhere. . .
. . . Gary

[Panama Red]

Thanx for getting back Gary. Wife and I are going to the local Civic Theater tonite, so it'll be late here before I get a chance to try your suggestions. If I understand correctly, you are suggesting that the DOS used on the 98se I'm trying to load is a different version that the 98se boot disk I downloaded from Bootdisk.com. That right? I did some more reseach last nite and found reference to the fault in the read/help file of the boot disk. There it says the fault is caused by sys files missing or incorrect. Tells how to fix it, but I'm not successful yet. Also ran scan disk and chkdisk from the 98 CD last nite and it found and fixed a quite a few errors. However, when I tried to format for CD installation, it stopped at 1% again and gave me the error message that it can't format. After disk was repaired, ran fdisk and removed all partitions (1) again, restarted, fdisk mbr found nothing, format c: - again stopped at 1%. Pulled the Maxtor again and put it in the XP machine, retested with Maxtor boot disk. Quick test says drive is good, extended test hangs. Tried running WD Lifeguard again. Same as before, bad sectors, tries to repair but can't. Tried to format with XP Disk Managment, hangs at 1% and locked up the XP machine. Powered off, reboot, check Maxtor with Partition Magic, Formatted Fat 32, set to active, worked fine. I'm beginning to think this hdd is bad and that's what caused the failure of the Win 95 originally. Oh well, got all weekend to find out!

[Panama Red]

Still need help Gary. Got home for lunch and did the following: Reinstalled Maxtor after the PM format, loaded 98se without a hitch this time. But when it restarts to set up Windows for the first time, it hangs on hardware recognition. Tried to boot to Safe mode, won't go, hangs there too with SAFE displayed in all 4 corners of blue screen with hour glass hung in middle. Powered down, removed modem, sound card, and ethernet card. No safe mode. Switched crt's, no change. Swithed back. Ran Memtest86 while reading MS knowledge base and Dell knowledge base. Memtest passed on 1 full test. KB says one possibility is bios needs update. Have downloaded A09 bios from Dell and created floppy (A04 now on Dell). Not sure how to go about saving existing bios to floppy for back up nor do I feel confident about flashing bios from this floppy. Do I just boot with this floppy and follow instructions? I know I'm in over my head, but it's sink or swim time now.

[GaryRouth]

Hi again - the theatre sounds like a good Halloween outing, have fun.

I think you're right about the Maxtor drive going south.

About the floppies: I was thinking that you used the XP system to format the disk. Any Win98se bootdisk should have a compatible DOS on it (I think it's "DOS 7") - so if you used either the CD, or an original install floppy, or a downloaded bootdisk.com floppy = they all should have worked. If there are errors occurring in "sys files missing or incorrect" - that sounds like 1) a bad disk 2) data corruption. Something is odd if the computer is having trouble booting with a floppy bootdisk and a freshly partitioned, unformatted hard drive. There's no Windows on the hard drive to be incompatible with. If the help files refer to files missing on the floppy itself - try a different floppy (maybe several). If you soon have a pile of useless floppies all giving that same error, then it's not likely the floppies fault. I've never seen/heard of that! [one thing: if you download the bootable diskettes, turn off any download manager software temporarily, and download the file directly (either with your normal browser or ftp) - some download managers can cause data corruption. It's not common or likely, but it could be the source of that DOS error]

If the hard drive is testing out badly, that about right for the life expentancy of a 4gb drive (I'd guess it's between 6 and 8 years old). It should be on it's last legs by now, if it's had much use. The Cd-rom in that machine was probably an old 4x at the fastest, too. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the components have suffered a few rude shocks over that span of years, and some are showing their age. I'll bet that processor could go another 10 years though. I haven't lost an Intel cpu yet. (The computer next to this one is my younger daughter's P233 -there's a working 486 in the garage - at work we actually have a 386 still doing service with a terminal emulator - none of those have original hard drives).

If you have some pulls at a local shop, they might do OK as an inexpensive alternative. Or maybe a 20-40gb drive on sale (a PII mobo might be able to go that range with a bios update).

Well, it's time for me to pick up TinkerBell from Kindergarten. She and her Harry Potter witch sister had a good time in their parade this morning.
. . . Gary

[Edit - just saw your post - you must have been typing while I was talking to my wife on the phone. . . To save the bios, most flash utilities let you simply answer "Y" to that prompt, and it copies itself onto the same floppy that you're flashing with (there's usually Plenty of room - bios files are tiny). You just give it a new name that you can remember in case you want to go back to it. - - - I'll check back when I get home from pickup time at school - - - I'm a little surprised that the drive hasn't died outright yet]

[Panama Red]

Well, Gary, I sure hope not, but I think I killed it! Booted to the new bios disk and followed the prompts. I was given 3 warnings to update a DVD driver before flashing the bios. I said no because this unit does not have, nor did it ever have a DVD. Bios flash was successful. Rebooted and got a couple error messages "password checksum bad - password cleared" and "diskette drive error" Went into setup and diskette was disabled, so I changed it to enabled. Reboot and got "invalid system disk. Replace the disk and press any key". (no cd or disk were in the drives. Would not boot from CD or fdd even tho it will attempt to read the drive. Pulled hard drive and reformatted with PM on XP machine. No change. One other thing of note, when I go in setup the Primary IDE channel does not call the Maxtor by brand any more. It is referred to as Primary Master (PM). Now I'm really stuck. I can change the boot sequence and it makes no difference. The system will not go beyond the setup bios screen. Got any ideas?

[Panama Red]

It just keeps getting more amazing! I checked for jumpers to reset the bios, can't find any. Removed the battery for a few minutes and reinstalled. Now all I get is the Setup screen with no devices listed beyond the "Ram passed". When I push del to enter setup, nothing cuz keyboard is not recognized.

[GaryRouth]

Panama, you've been having too much fun with that system. You're going to have to pay the customer for having such an entertaining board.

Not that this will help any, but if you want to try resetting the bios via jumper, it should be jumper J8B2, located just about an inch or two up from the battery. It resets like most Dells, jumper onto 2,3 for a few seconds, then replace to 1,2.

If that doesn't help (it probably won't), try replacing the original bios. Just use the same diskette, but when asked which bios file to use, type in the name you gave the backup copy of the original bios.

The whole DVD issue is a strange one. I did see that note in the tech notes for that bios flash (its the A09 version, right?). . . and they refer to some esoteric A1 DVD card [probably something like the Hollywood DVD decoder cards] - and at any rate, since you have no OS installed at the point anyway, it shouldn't matter.

If the older bios behaves well enough, does anyone have a used hard drive about the same size cheap? It'd be interesting to see how the formatting would go.

I'll check back in the morning, this night owl's done hooting for now
. . . Gary

[Panama Red]

Good mornin'! Well, back at it. Feelin' like Sherlock Holmes, falshlight in one hand and magnifying glass in the other, still can't find ANY jumpes on that mobo. Couple of items are labeled J -something, but they are fixed. Even removed the CPU and looked under it, nothing. There was no option to save the old bios when I was flashing to the A09, but since it won't read any floppy at all, not sure that would help anyway. Tried booting again this am and got the same screen display. reset and hit del key rapidly, but no response. It's not recognizing the keyboard at all. I see a momentary display at the top of the screen, before it goes to the Setup display, that identifies the video and monitor info. Other than identifiying the CPU and Ram, it fails to recognize any components installed. Guess I'm getting an education. Just talked to my buddy on the phone and he has a mobo that will support this hardware that is also a PII 266 and a spare 4Gig hdd. We're gonna get together later today and see if it will physically fit. I'm still open for ideas, Gary, so keep em comin'! Thanx again for all your help. Time to play yardman.

[ZYFER]

well to reset the CMOS you can also take the battery out, I am certain at least it has one of those. though from everything I see it looks liek the board is shot

[GaryRouth]

I'm surprised that the bios flash utility didn't ask you to save the older bios first. It's fairly common, but not universal. I haven't had a bios flash go badly yet, so I'm sorry you had to have so much trouble on one of your first few tries. They are usually fairly boring & fix a few things.

Just in case you want to try clearing the bios settings again - you can do the battery trick again, or look one more time for the jumper. It is, in fact, the Only jumper on that board [there are no jumpers or dip-switches for cpu, fsb, or memory timings]. Its J8B2, looks like about one or two inches straight above the battery. Take a look at the system board layout on page 32 of that .pdf manual I linked to above. If the board doesn't look like that one - ask the customer if he's replaced the motherboard in the past. Customers can leave out critical information like that.

This time, before booting up with the refreshed bios settings, unplug the IDE Cd-rom & double-check the floppies cabling. See if detection gets farther along. If the keyboard is PS/2, try reattaching it while the power is off, checking for bent pins while it's unplugged (not likely, but might as well be thorough)

If you can get to the point where the system can recognize the floppy drive, and boot from it = see how things go with the new bios. If badly, you can download the A04 (your previous version), and flash that original bios back in from this link: http://support.dell.com/filelib/Form...=308&Type=BIOS . . . the XPS M & P series went to version A10, but A09 is the end of the line for the XPS D series.
---------------------------
If things do prove to be unfixable (both mobo & hard drive), the only replacement for the mobo will be another Dell mobo. The case connectors and the power supply connectors are wired to Dell's specs, and aren't the same as the average OEM box. They do have used Dell mobos pop up on eBay, often with cpus included. Mounting for most XPS series boards is fairly consistent - you can usually tell with a quick glance if things will likely line up OK.

Got to run fix a few file transfers (I'm at work today), but I'll check in on you later.
. . . Gary

[Panama Red]

Well, the offer of another mobo and hdd from my friend didn't pan out. His mobo is from a Gateway and the port config is different as well as the front panel connectors. No sense trying to make it work. I'll put it all back together today and try you latest suggestions, Gary, but I'm pretty well convinced the mobo may have been the cause of this mess in the beginning. By the way, Gary - Happy Birthday to you!! Looks like you've joined me and others in the "old coot" status. What I'm curious about now is a half-century guy with a child in kindergarten. You a "late bloomer"?!! Thanx again for all your help.

[GaryRouth]

[I married Jennifer, she's the youngest of the three sisters in her family - - - she keeps me thinking young . . . not too young, though (to get her highly secret age, you subtract 8 years from mine = don't tell anyone ]

On that Dell - did the customer suspect a few parts? Seems to me he may have replaced the mobo already, and the hard drive and cd-drive didn't seem too healthy either. Makes me wonder if the whole system had a surge or two.

Hope it miraculously works out!
(& thanks for the b-day greetings)
. . . Gary

[p.s. --even though the motherboard won't work in the Dell, the hard drive should be OK. Would he part with that one separately?]

[Panama Red]

Hi Gary. I've tried everything we've discussed with no improvement. Put it all back together and I'm going to drop it off to my A+ buddy tomorrow so he can take a crack at it. The owner had done something to corrupt the Wind 95 that was originally on it, but he didn't say what. He knew the CDrom was bad as he had taken in out and tried to fix it. He had dropped a mounting screw in the case and couldn't find it. I found it before I started working on this thing, but I'm wondering now if the screw may have shorted the motherboard some how. I didn't see any burn marks, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything. This had been his mom's system and she bought a complete new one and gave this to him. He's a Mac owner and does some web site develpment but wasn't real familiar with PC's. I'm not going to charge him anything for my time, but I do plan to offer to build him something else. I think I'll take the Dell tower in trade and maybe try to salvage some money that way. Thanx again for all your help and hope today was a great birthday for ya.

ps - I know about the younger wife deal, mine is 6 years my junior. She's closing in on your number next April.

[GaryRouth]

If your A+ friend has a power supply tester, ask him if he can test out the power supply a little. If so, that makes the case/power supply combo reusuable with a replacement Dell motherboard (since the proprietary connections should match). The original owner might be interested in that angle, too.

Just took a quick glance on eBay, typed in "Dell motherboard" = looks like some parts are available there at very reasonable prices. It'd be an easy replacement, expecially if you find an XPS series board - I would think XPS D, M, or P series boards would fit. The D boards would probably accept the current Pentium II as well, that detail would all be available when you're on eBay. The vendors there offer fairly decent descriptions of the parts. [some of the boards were available for as little at $10]

Those Dell cases and power supplies last a long, long time. I put a few XPS Dells back together for a local preschool. Very nicely made. I just wish the connectors were standard.
. . . Gary

[. . . only five more years, I get my golden years discount card . . . still feel like a spring twig ]

[Panama Red]

Thanx for the ebay tip. Never found a need to go there. Maybe I better check it out, eh? You don't have to wait for five more years, AARP should be sending you some infor any day! I got my card at 50 and used it for hotel discounts right away. I may not look 55, but I'll put $ before vanity every time! If you want an AARP membership, think you can sign up online.

[GaryRouth]

Thanks for the discount tip!

One of the things I like almost as much as computers: discounts!

Off to AARP . . . Gary

[late Edit - just saw a board that might be a very close replacement to that XPS D - an Intel 440LX PII board http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=42008]

That one is about $15 when the shipping is added on. There are quite a few boards out there, it looks like.

[Panama Red]

Hey Gary, ya still readin' this tale of woe? The saga continues. Earlier this year, I gave my old Gateway PIII 500 boards to my A+ buddy for helpin me out. Well, guess what mobo is now in the Dell? Funny how it says "Gateway" on the splash screen! Had to use a salvaged 145Watt Compaq psu cuz it was the only thing I had that would fit in the case. The Dell had an extra connector and my old Gateway had an external fan that would let it fit in the case. Got everything working last nite, but when I loaded 98, got the same HDD failure notice. Yanked it for the last time and right now I'm loading it ONE MORE TIME on a 6.2Gb Quantum I got from the same friend. Hopefully all the drivers will load or I can find ok. Too much fun, eh?

[GaryRouth]

I can understand how you got the Gateway board to work with a Compaq power supply, since both of those parts are standard, but how did you get the Dell XPS front panel cable to attach to the Gateway motherboard? [Did you hand-wire and adaptor? --->or, miracle of miracles, did the Gateway also use front panel connectors wired the same as the Dell connector cable? - (there were some SiS boards that matched up) ] I'm sitting here impressed.

Hope the Quantum co-operates. Customer gets upgraded on the cpu, hd, and cd-drive. Pretty good deal. Should be one happy camper.
. . . Gary

[Panama Red]

YEEEEHAAAA!!! We have a winner! You guessed right about the front panel connector, big time lucky. The Dell connector matched perfectly with the Gateway (Whew). All the drivers worked except the ethernet card and I found that at driverguide.com. All the Windows Updates are installed and I'm running the defrag as I type this. Talk about a conglomeration of parts. Dell case,fdd,sound card, ethernet card,and video card, Gateway mobo, Dell cpu, Compaq psu and CD-RW, 64Mb Dell ram and 64Mb Compaq ram, Quantum 6.2Gb hdd. Gotta tape over some exposed holes in the back panel yet, install some software, and double check some functions, but I think we're close. Thanx again for all your advice and support Gary! Just goes to show - Persistence Pays!

[GaryRouth]

Way to go!