Vista is here to stay and XP will go the way of 98.

[Baskervore]

That is what I would like to discuss with you today. Do we think that Vista will eventually become as popular as XP is nowadays? Or maybe Vista will become a pariah like ME became?

The question is, what do you think it will become? Right now many people do not like Vista for many valid reasons.

1. Lack of driver support.
2. Programs that work on XP do not work on Vista.
3. Hogs resources.
4. Vista is an expensive investment for an unnecessary upgrade.
5. Steep system requirements.
6. You have to get used to Vista's new features and setting.
7. XP does everything I need a computer to do.

Look carefully at this list of reasons not to upgrade to Vista. Does it look familiar to you? Unless you're new to computers, it should look familiar. In the above points, replace "Vista" with "XP", and replace "XP" with "98" (or 2000) and you will have a list exactly like that of the list people made for XP back in 2001.

But of course, let's get back on topic. We're not really talking about whether or not people should upgrade to Vista now, we're talking about whether or not everyone will be upgraded to Vista in a year or two. In this respect, I suspect that all of the above points will all vanish or become moot within a year.

Let's look at each of these point individually.

1. Lack of driver support.
Well Vista just came out, what do you expect? Give it time; XP didn't come out with a full set of drivers awaiting its triumphant descent from the clouds either.

2. Programs that work on XP do not work on Vista.
Same response here. Give it some time so the software developers can make the necessary changes to be Vista compatible.

3. Hogs resources.
Wow. Just wow. This is sooooo much like when XP came out it's not even funny. Back in 2001 XP had the same comments, only with much smaller numbers. In that thread, people said things like "Resources...it's a hog, no doubt about it. It eats RAM like candy, but never (rarely) uses the swapfile (paging file). On a 512 meg system, it eats between 90 and 150 meg starting up". Ok, so those numbers look piddly to us now. In a few years Vista's 1GB required is going to be absolutely normal (if you don't already consider it normal), and a few years after that 1GB will look piddly.

4. Vista is an expensive investment.
Vista is expensive? Right now XP Pro w/ SP2 costs $280 (retail), $140 (OEM), while Vista Home Premium (I wouldn't even consider Ultimate) costs $220 (retail), $112(OEM). Seems that Vista is actually less expensive to me.

5. Steep system requirements.
Not just with memory (as was touched upon above), but with everything else! This may be true now, but later on, (as said above) the requirements will not seem very steep at all.

6. You have to get used to Vista's new features and setting.
Well yeah, of course you do. Back in the day people had to get used to XP too, so you'd just have to spend a little more time with Vista learning its pleasant quirks just like you did when you converted to XP.

7. XP does everything I need a computer to do.
Which brings me to my conclusion that you should not get Vista! Qualifier: right now. Notice how most of my responses to Vista's current problems were something along the lines of "come back in a year". Well...yeah, come back in a year. I honestly think that Vista will become just as usable as XP (in a year), will overtake XP in both popularity and functionality (two to three years), and XP will die a natural death (in maybe five years).

Thus, if someone (right now) offers you a brand spankin new Vista Home Premium OEM for $20, I think you should take it! (Just don't use it for a year or so.) Otherwise, you might as well wait a few years until Vista gets its second service pack.

The wildcard? That Vista goes the way of ME. I sure hope that doesn't happen.

[EzyStvy]

For those of us that have been using computers since the DOS Days...We've seen history repeat itsself Meaning, these same things happens when XP first came out. Tons of people had to replace their OLD printers and scanners and such....

I used Win ME for a year and thought it was superior to 98...I upgraded the same machine to Win 2k and thought I died and went to heaven....

It will always be a vicious cycle. Hardware makers make new and improved hardware. Software makers make software that can use/take advantage of the new hardware.

[jer888]

and for gamers, why buy vista (DX10 capability right) when there arn't any DX10 games out yet? When ATi hasn't even gotten its DX10 line out? I can't think of any reason to invest in a DX10 operating system or hardware when there arn't any games yet. Hey. maybe by the time DX10 games become the norm, those big shiny 8800GTX's will become mid range

[pam123]

I bought ME the first time round and replaced it with 98 SE.
Microsoft ended up extending support for 98 till 2005 !
Microsoft OS replacements don't really fail, given the "pre-install" they can't but as ME proved, if they don't move in retail as well the guys at Redmond have a flop on their hands.
I game so I'm still facing an update to Vista no matter what my views on it are, Linux just doesn't make it as a gaming platform and neither do Macs ( Yet; and don't get me started on the Xbox thing. ).
The problem is that many businesses don't have to worry about that and if they don't need to upgrade ( Win 2000/XP lives ! ) a large part of the market won't be there ( Worse Linux and Apple's Leopard ares now a credible alternatives despite Microsoft 'spinning' the figures. ).
It looks like we're about to find out what real competition in the OS market will look like.
No predictions here, just intense interest.

[Disgrace]

I doubt Vista will be a failure. There's a lot of people out there who'll buy it because it's Microsoft or because it sounds good on TV.

Personally, i'm always a step behind. I used Windows ME (agreed, it was pretty awful) for 5 years starting when XP came out and I only just started to use XP myself just before Vista came out. Although I used XP at school and at friends' etc...

It'll be at least a year until I think about thinking about buying Vista! Not that I doubt it, I just like to be sure and not end up with incompatible software. Same goes for the DX10 things... Nobody has stopped making things for XP or DX9 so i'm safe for now. Eventually, i'll need to upgrade since I game as well.

[glfredrick]

ME

XP was like waking up from a pleasant sexually charged dream compared to previous offerings...

I expect that VISTA has some stuff we've not had a chance to experience as yet, and yes, in a couple years we'll all wonder why we complained.

At least the DOS folks are finally done crying...

I too am one of the ones that have been here since the beginning (pre-Microsoft in fact).

I now have more RAM going into my new build than I could ever even DREAM of for a hard drive when I started. I still have the receipt for my first 486 system, a DX 33. My system came with 4 mb RAM. I felt like king of the world when I was financially able to add 4 more mb (at a cost of close to $400!). That "blazingly fast system" cost me $3200 with a dot matrix printer... I had to take out a loan!

Things change. They use more resources. Resources keep on getting faster and cheaper. Big deal -- so what. The only reason we're even having this conversation is because we've invested so much into arbitrary numbers and think that they mean something. When Intel set that magical 32 bit data bus number on stuff, they held the computing world back for two decades. Viva la difference! Every time (except ME) has been a winner -- eventually -- when people stopped worrying about numbers and just ran the stuff.

[VideoQuasar]

After using Vista U 64 for the last month and liking it more and more, I bet it is here to stay and will dominate the PC as XP does at the moment.

Vista is for the new hardware...

XP is for hardware during its heyday..plus some.

Typical pattern as pointed out in original post.

[doubledragon5]

I have the Vista Premium and might wait to install it until the first service pack comes out.. I oly have 2GB ram, so hopefully when everything is installed I won't have to up the ram to maybe 3 or 4GB..

[mairving]

Originally Posted by doubledragon5 I have the Vista Premium and might wait to install it until the first service pack comes out.. I oly have 2GB ram, so hopefully when everything is installed I won't have to up the ram to maybe 3 or 4GB..

The good news is that although Vista needs at least 1GB to run, it uses memory pretty well once it gets up. As a test I loaded up a bunch of IE windows, FF2, Photoshop, Homesite, Acrobat Reader and few other programs that used resources. The highest I get get the RAM usage up to was about 1.3GB. Now obviously if I had a 100MB psd image open then it might peg it a little more but I haven't ever got over the 1.3GB yet. So 2GB would be fine.

[patrickt]

I have Vista and used it awhile and am back with XP. The biggest problem facing Vista is, in my opinion, that's there is nothing wrong with XP. At least nothing that Vista fixes. I simply have no real reason to run Vista although I realize I will eventually have to switch.

[windowgazer]

The most sensible comments I've read on vista come from glfredrick,VideoQuaser and patrickt.
I've no doubt it is fast replacing XP.

[chuck4456]

VISTA needs some things done to it...................................

[tomster2300]

Vista is fine for everyday use, and if you have anything above a gig of ram then you'll have no problem with it whatsoever. Many people just dislike change, both for psychological and financial reasons. It'll catch on and become the norm soon enough. I love it personally, and expect it to truly take off once the gaming industry decides to create some dx 10 games for it. The video cards are here, and the games are on their way. Look for Bioshock and others coming out soon to be the first supporters.

The times, they are a changin, but it's certainly not the first time this has occurred.

PS: Gaming is still pretty slow in Vista compared to XP, but a good dual boot easily solves that problem.

[conexion]

The only thing which I don't like and cannot get used to is just buying a whole new PC in order to run a newer OS. I just bought in 2005 a Gateway 7422gx notebook, it has a 80 GB hard drive, AMD Athlon XP 3500 64 Bit, 1 GB ram and 64 MB Integrated graphics (I think), I paid $1500, now if I want to upgrade to vista, this OS is going to be very heavy for my system, it's only going to meet the minimun requirements and that's not good. And now, If you want to get a brand new PC is going to be expensive because it has windows vista installed instead of getting extras like a nice video card or memory. It's very expensive, they should start working in better OS with lighter requirements, imagine a new Windows that can run perfectly using your same processor, videocard and system RAM. I don't know.

[Lespaul20]

I don't think a whole new pc is needed to run Vista. I have an Athon XP 3000 64Bit, 1.5GB ram, Radeon 9600 and it runs Areo just fine. You can turn off a lot of the features just as in XP to increase the performance. When have you seen a Microsoft OS introduced that doesn't require an increase in hardware? I think it would be stupid is software companies, especially MS not to take advantage of the new hardware. Like tom said things are changing.

For what some are saying about Vista not replacing XP, I disagree somewhat. The same is/has happened to W2K. That was a solid OS so why upgrade? I'd venture to guess that Vista will be replacing XP soon in the consumer market. I'm not so sure in the corporate side since reliability and compatibility are critical. I know where I work we are just now switching to XP on most of our machines and it took so long for two reason: One, my boss had is stuck in his head that XP wasn't a very good OS and it's costly to upgrade 200 licenses.

What I think is that if you are looking for a 100% compatible OS and/or can't afford to upgrade stick with XP. I've had very few issues with Vista though and so far and none were critical.

[VideoQuasar]

Originally Posted by conexion The only thing which I don't like and cannot get used to is just buying a whole new PC in order to run a newer OS............ And now, If you want to get a brand new PC is going to be expensive because it has windows vista installed instead of getting extras like a nice video card or memory. It's very expensive, they should start working in better OS with lighter requirements, imagine a new Windows that can run perfectly using your same processor, videocard and system RAM. I don't know.

My friend, you just posted as a very good candidate for being a Linux user. I'm sure the latest greatest SuSe distro would blow your mind, and your laptop would cut through it like butter.

I dual boot on my last build with SuSe 10.1 (also XP pro) and it is a fantastic OS. I also dual boot on a even older PC with VectorLinux (also XP Home), and it is snappier than heck being a Slackware based distro.

My point being there is something out there for everyone.

[doubledragon5]

The one BIG think that i have noticed with Vista is the price.. Heck for the upgrade it cost me $159 the full version is $239. The Ultimate I belive is $399.. I guess Bill Gates didn't make enough money on the price of XP to be charging that much...

[tomster2300]

I got the Home Premium upgrade for $90.

[Lespaul20]

I'm sure people were saying that about the $299 tag on XP being too high. Let me clarify what I said above, I meant to say the the OEM version of Vista on retail computer will eventually replace XP. Just like most of the XP installs are not retail versions I doubt Vista will be any different.

About the Linux comment, sound good but for the person who is not just an Internet browser or document editor, it's like installing euro electrical plugs in your house. I may work, probably even better but when you need to use someone else's vacuum cleaner your going to have problems. Linux is gaining popularity and I'm glad but there are too many Mac and Windows specific programs that are hard to get away from.

[doubledragon5]

Originally Posted by tomster2300 I got the Home Premium upgrade for $90.

Where did you get that from? Heck it cost me $159 at Bestbuy..

Ive tried linux and was not fond of it.. Maybe it is because Im so use to running a window based machine..

[rwest]

I find it odd that noone has really brought up stability yet. As far as pc users and Windows goes, Windows didn't get become stable untill 2000 was released. '98 and earlier was prone to crashes and ME was well... 'ME'. Looking at it from this stand point each newer version of Windows was more stable and more compatable with higher end components. (ie. graphics cards, networking interface, etc.)

If I understand it correctly XP was built on the same filling system as 2000(due to it being extremely stable) with added features from earier operating systems for ease of use. So now what we have is a higly graphical, user friendly, souped up, stable operating sytem! All Vista has to offer is a different look and support for newer technology.

I don't think stability and speed is a factor for a lot of end users, when even the early P4 and Athlon systems are running XP just fine. A lot of these users are just getting online and running simple games. The only real appeal to alot of users is eye candy, and or I just gotta have the newest thing. I think Vista just doesn't have enought to offer for a variety of users.

I think Vista will become the alternative. I think alot of users who arent running out and buying Vista will eventually have to upgrade, but by then Vista SE will be out or a whole differnent OS with a completely different filing system will be on the market. (maybe one not as resource hungy )

[mairving]

Originally Posted by rwest I don't think stability and speed is a factor for a lot of end users, when even the early P4 and Athlon systems are running XP just fine. A lot of these users are just getting online and running simple games. The only real appeal to alot of users is eye candy, and or I just gotta have the newest thing. I think Vista just doesn't have enought to offer for a variety of users. I think Vista will become the alternative. I think alot of users who arent running out and buying Vista will eventually have to upgrade, but by then Vista SE will be out or a whole differnent OS with a completely different filing system will be on the market. (maybe one not as resource hungy )

You don't think users want stability? You have got to be kidding. Speed they may sacrifice but stability and compatibility and ease of use are the biggest factors.

People aren't going to go out and buy Vista along with a new video card, hard drive, RAM, etc. just to run Vista. They will buy a new computer with Vista on it. That is generally the way that Microsoft gets a new OS out.

[Kasturi]

I recently purchased Vista Home Edition full version for $60.

I wasnt planning on purchasing this OS for a while, but the deal was just to great to turndown. I am going to hang onto it until SP2 comes out, then I may put it on my system.

Either that or Im gonna try and sell it for more than I paid for it.

Not sure yet.

[tomster2300]

Originally Posted by doubledragon5 Where did you get that from? Heck it cost me $159 at Bestbuy.. Ive tried linux and was not fond of it.. Maybe it is because Im so use to running a window based machine..

Student discount, college bookstore.

[doubledragon5]

Originally Posted by tomster2300 Student discount, college bookstore.

Heck I should of went to a college and told them I was a student.

[ConLog]

Windows Vista Home Premium works absolutely fine with 1GB of RAM.....take my word for it!

[rwest]

Originally Posted by mairving You don't think users want stability? You have got to be kidding.

You missunderstood me. Those who are running XP will not be looking to upgrade because of, or for stability. Stability is not a factor for XP. XP is extremely stable.

If it aint broke,...

[dubbrollin]

Originally Posted by doubledragon5 Where did you get that from? Heck it cost me $159 at Bestbuy.. Ive tried linux and was not fond of it.. Maybe it is because Im so use to running a window based machine..

i paid 110 for mine at pc club. hell i had no play on buying mine but i lost my XP disc and one of my comps was crashin!

[BeepBeep2]

I got Vista Home Premium OEM for System Builders for $114 at newegg. came with a manual and everything, just not that shiny green box. (I would HATE to pay $100 for a decorated box)

[Jester]

You arent paying 100 for the shiney green box. You are paying an extra 100 for the right to install the OS on a different computer (not concurently). The EULA on the system builders versions specifically states that that disc is tied to that computer, and only that computer. Not that M$ is going to come to your house to look at serial numbers and such, but if they really wanted to the could look at activation histories.