My advice on Windows 8.

[David M]

I am into gaming (52 years old) and 7 does everything I need.

[jdeb]

I guess iTunes has issues as well.

[usnavyretired]

Sometimes, no matter how hard you try, you just can't build a better mouse trap.

[K A Hall]

I'm late trying out Win8 other than playing around with a system in a staples for a few minutes about 2 months ago. I received as a Christmas gift a low end Toshiba laptop running it and I just don't like it.
Everything is there if you can find it and you can if you look but I just don't get why I have to have the metro thing on a desktop and no start menu. I know you can download classic shell and get the start back but why should I have to. And even then the "search programs and files" feature in the run menu is not going to work like it did before which is just sad.
Sure you can do WinKey F, P, Q, X or W and get to stuff and search but I have just always used the start menu and right clicking to get to those things. Since the laptop was a gift I thought what the heck, I"ll try to use it. So I loaded up my must have programs and thought I was good to go. On my first service call while trying to set up someones router for remote access I really got frustrated which I rarely do so that was it. I took it back due to sluggishness which isn't Win8's fault completely as like I said it was a low end laptop but I just couldn't deal with it.
With all that said I am trying again on a new build with one of the cheap win8 pro upgrade discs and a clean install cuz I have to have it and I will probably learn to love it but so far I think it was a mistake.

[David M]

I was listening to Clarke Howard on a podcast today. Clarke is my favorite consumer advocate. He said he bought a touchscreen computer with Windows 8. He is not a very tech savvy person, but is very smart none the less. He said he is having a very difficult time using it. He said for the life of him he could not figure out how get from using an application to using a web browser. He said it is not very intuitive at all and is sorry he made the purchase.

Shouldn't a user interface be at least somewhat intuitive for those who are not tech savvy?...or at least require very minimal training.

Perhaps this is the problem with Windows 8, tech savvy people designed an operating system without testing it out on non-tech savvy people first? They just assumed other people would know things that they already know how to do, or maybe figure out how to do something by hacking away at the user interface?

[martson]

I had a deal of trouble getting to grips with my first computer that ran on Windows 95. All sorts of advice and experimentation was needed to find my way around. It wasn't so bad when Windows 98 came along because it was similar to use to Windows 95. The same with XP and Windows 7 when they were released. The knowledge gained from one OS could always be transferred and used on the next version along, especially regarding the UI. They all had Desktop and a set of menus accessible via the Start Button.

I've had years to get comfortable with this presentation but can think back to the time when I didn't know my way around the (now familiar) interface. I think the situation is a bit the same with Windows 8. Totally strange now but if it stays along the same lines in Windows 9, 10 and 11, the feel will become just as familiar as it is now with Microsoft's previous operating systems.

Windows 8 just need learning in my humble opinion. Closing one Windows application and opening another is easy. It only needs a little Internet research to find out how. Put the mouse at the top of the screen until it turns into a hand. Click and drag it down to the bottom of the screen. The program minimises and then closes down. Go to the Start screen and open another program. I'd imagine the procedure would be the same using a finger on a touch screen.

The information (often with screenshots) is out there on the Internet and this is a luxury compared to the lack of information that was around when Windows 95 was the OS of the day.

[K A Hall]

An Example of frustration with 8.
During the install and I guess because I used a MS account along the way my C:\Users\DirectoryName was just plain old K and my account was not local. It's a minor thing but I didn't like it and it took me way to long to fix it. I"m sure it can be installed without using a MS account but I must have missed it.

[Force Flow]

Windows 8: The Animated Evaluation - YouTube

There is some language in this one, but it's worth a watch. It does a very good job at breaking down what Microsoft did very poorly in Win8 for end-users.

[K A Hall]

Originally Posted by Force Flow Windows 8: The Animated Evaluation - YouTube There is some language in this one, but it's worth a watch. It does a very good job at breaking down what Microsoft did very poorly in Win8 for end-users.

I watched that a few week ago. I wanted to see for myself.

[martson]

At one point the reviewer in the video says, "If I can't find my way around an operating system, what hope do Grandma and Grandpa have?" Well, more hope than him apparently. I'm 68 and a Grandfather many times over. I'm sure I don't know everything about the OS but I've found my way around it pretty well.

He maybe ought to read a few of the beginners guides on the subject. I noticed while watching the video that there are quite a few listed.

[Hawkeye4]

I just can't see using something that works like a tablet on my desktop monitor. Who's going to keep reaching up and scrolling with your hand when I can move around with a mouse, nice and comfortable leaning back in my office chair?

[strollin]

Yep. I agree about working with a touch screen on a desktop or laptop, don't want to have to keep taking my hands off the keyboard to swipe or tap the screen. That's why I'm happy that Win 8 works great with mouse and keyboard.

[Rick Hall]

Windows 8 works just fine with the mouse and no touch screen. I am 69 years old and figured out Windows 8 navigation within a couple of hours. I no longer use Windows 7 because I find Windows 8 considerably faster, easier to use and I like the change. I use both metro and desktop and I have not added the utility that makes Windows 8 act like Windows 7. For those of you that try Windows 8 and immediately don't like it, my suggestion to you would be to give it a chance and I am willing to bet that it will grow on you.
Well that's my 2 cents worth!

[GaryRouth]

I'm another "long-timer" in the digital world, though a decade behind Rick, and I'm also impressed with the performance aspect of Windows 8. I find Windows 7 very responsive and quick, but Windows 8 is so quick it's a pleasant surprise. [I'm writing this from a Windows 7 / Windows 8 dual-boot laptop that's about two and a-half years old].

I do wish Microsoft had included the same functionality from both the desktop and the Start Screen interfaces - more like Ubuntu's one-click method of moving from an icon-heavy interface to the older desktop-menu interface [one tap gets you from one to the other]. I think the out-of-the-box experience would have been much more pleasant for most users -- folks could take their time getting around, and explore the newer interface when they had time to do so [after all, we're generally trying to get things done quickly].

One little thing I did to ease the transition (which now seems second-nature), was to create a folder that I called "My Menu", fill it with the shortcuts that I liked to use most from the old Start Menu, and then create a toolbar for it on the desktop taskbar. Most of my programs are still desktop programs, and it's easier when several windows are open to simply click on the program I want from my toolbar menu (or from a 'quick launch' icon) rather than to have to leave the desktop, go to the Start screen, flip horizontally through categories of rather large tiles, & finally select the program I want - which lands me again back on the desktop.

I've attached a screenshot of the My Menu toolbar expanded on the desktop.

One other advantage of simply creating a toolbar of favorite shortcuts rather than relying on a third-party program to recreate Win7 style Start Menu functions is that there's no worry about future incompatibility arising from Windows Updates that might disrupt the third-party menus. And if the toolbar is no longer needed, one click sends it to its retirement.
_______________

One of my favorite versions of Windows was called "Windows for Workgroups" (also known as Windows 3.11). When setup well and configured correctly, it was stable, responsive, and easy-to-use. Strangely enough, the Program Manager screen, when expanded to fill your monitor's screen, looked a little bit like the Windows 8 Start screen: groups of shortcuts to programs.

[strollin]

You can use GaryRouth's method of creating shortcuts, placing them in a folder and then creating a toolbar to point to the folder OR you could just create a Toolbar that points to the Windows Programs folder. When you create a new toolbar, and it asks for the folder location, just put in this string: %ProgramData%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs
That will create a Toolbar with all the Start Menu shortcuts that were created when the programs were installed.

[K A Hall]

Originally Posted by strollin [..] OR you could just create a Toolbar that points to the Windows Programs folder. When you create a new toolbar, and it asks for the folder location, just put in this string: %ProgramData%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs That will create a Toolbar with all the Start Menu shortcuts that were created when the programs were installed.

Nice tip. Very helpful.

[GaryRouth]

For the heck of it, I found an old graphic that shows the Windows for Workgroups Program Manager screen, as it appeared when maximized full screen (and I've attached it here).

The icons are arranged within rectangular groups, not so different from the Windows 8 Start screen. In fact, the shortcuts the 3.11 Program Manager were much more pliable as far as their arrangement on the screen, as you could stretch or shrink each group of icons place on the desktop in any direction --- whereas the Windows 8 Start screen is surprisingly limited in options for the size, shape, and placement of the tile groups.

Odd to see a movement toward less customization from Microsoft, which is usually the Burger King of operating systems ("have it your way").
______________________________

One more little mention about the idea of creating your own toolbar in Windows 8: when you create your own toolbar, the grouping of shortcuts is entirely up to you, rather than the often cluttered & haphazard groupings that tend to appear if programs are left to scatter their Start menu folders willy-nilly. You also can include shortcuts to other items associated with the Win95-Win7 Start Menu era, such as Documents, Downloads, Music, Pictures, Video, Control Panel, Help, etc. ... whatever you choose -- and you can include a Shutdown icon too (so that you can shutdown with one click, rather than gesturing to produce the charms bar, selecting Settings, selecting Power, and finally selecting Shutdown).

Creating toolbars isn't for everyone, but for those who enjoy extensively customizing their PCs to their way of doing things - it's a bit fun.

PS .. the command for a Windows 8 "Shutdown" icon is ... shutdown.exe /s /t 00 ... and if you want to add a shortcut for restart as well, the command is ... shutdown.exe /r /t 00 . . . in fact, if you want to go whole hog and create a whole menu of shutdown options (along with Log Off, etc.) --the techs at TechRepublic had enough idle time on their hands to come up with a method for that --- Add a Shutdown menu to the Windows 8 desktop | TechRepublic
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I used to get requests to do case mods & special theme customizing back when building your own PC actually saved you money ... Windows was always the platform that would allow the most choices.

I hope the room for creativity stays a theme with Microsoft.
. . . Gary

[jdeb]

Originally Posted by K A Hall An Example of frustration with 8. During the install and I guess because I used a MS account along the way my C:\Users\DirectoryName was just plain old K and my account was not local. It's a minor thing but I didn't like it and it took me way to long to fix it. I"m sure it can be installed without using a MS account but I must have missed it.

At the sign in, enter any email address and Microsoft will create an account for you based on that email address.

The advantage of using a Microsoft account is that you can easily use the Windows Store, you can sync major settings between multiple Windows 8 computers, and more.

Your account is only stored locally on this Windows 8 computer. Please note though that you'll still need to create a, or use your current, Microsoft account some time in the future if you plan on using the Windows Store to download apps. So, let your customer know this.

To sign in systemwide, go to the Charms bar, and select Settings > Change PC Settings (this will send you to another window) > Users From there you can select Switch to a Microsoft account. From there, just enter your account email, or you'll be given the option of creating one. A new subhead will now appear in PC Settings called Sync your settings. You can pick out which kinds of settings you want to sync.

[Rick Hall]

To GaryRouth,

You mention that it would be nice to have a single key to access the desktop from the metro screen and vice versa.

You can do this by simply using the Windows key.

By the way Gary, my first computer was a Timex-Sinclair and then a Vic20, Commodore 64, Commodore 128, PC-XT, etc.
I ran a full bulletin board system (BBS, but direct single call in and no graphics of course.) on the VIC20 using a 300 BAUD modem, Amber VIC20 monitor and a dual MSD 72k floppy drive for the online available data (games and files) along with the VIC20 floppy drive with the bulletin board operational software on it. I also had a tape drive for the VIC20. Man, have we come a long way. I paid $400.00 for the dual MSD floppy drive.

The first hard drive that I bought was for my PC-XT and it was a Seagate 20 Meg. drive. I wondered at the time why I would ever need 20 Meg. of space. Now you need 20 gig for some games.

Who remembers keypunch?

[SARGE]

I liked it until it wouldn't print my bank transactions or ETrade. Prints everything else. Does run some ram that Win7 wouldn't. That part is weird since all hardware same. When I have a few hours going back to Win7 64. I gotta print out bank stuff everyday

[GaryRouth]

Sarge --- are you printing the bank & eTrade data from a browser? Do you have the same problem regardless of the browser? I'd be interested to hear if the option "Print using system dialog (Ctrl+Shift+P)" helps. Or - updated drivers for the printers might do.

Rick --- yes, thanks for thinking of the Windows key. I know some of our readers might not know that tip. I also am fond of the Windows+X key combo to bring up that helpful menu.

I knew about the Windows key already: what I probably didn't make clear was that I had hoped that the one-click would lead to equal functionality from either interface. In Ubuntu, the functionality is largely available out-of-the-box. In Windows, the desktop has been stripped of much of its earlier functionality, though it is still capable of such functions with a little customization by the user (its not there out-of-the-box).

Remembering the old systems ... remember the key-punch cards and the mainframes with acoustic ceilings & raised floors (for the spaghetti of wires snaking above and below) ... and the frigid air conditioning trying to keep the hard drives (as big as washing machines) cool ... and having to wear lab coats [although I was working in a medical lab IT and would have to wear a lab coat anyway] ... --- I can't remember if it was Steve Jobs, or another famous figure in the computing world, who mentions in one of his interviews that todays smartphones, tablets, and laptops have as much computing power (in just one laptop, for example) than the entire computing power available to Mission Control in Houston when Neil Armstrong landed on the moon.

.... then again, my dad's father was born into a world with no cars, no planes, no radio, no TV .... he was born in the 1890s...

Time flies!
. . . Gary

[K A Hall]

I am revising my opinion of Win8. I have used it for about 3 weeks without using any program to put the start menu back, I'm using it as it was when I installed it. It's growing on me and I have no problems with it at all. I haven't seen any "couldn't do without" advantages 8 has over 7 but I don't have any complaints either.
And since we are giving history of our experiences which is always fun to read....at least for me.
My Computer/PC experiences really didn't start until 95 or 96 except for taking a few classes in the late 80's that required I use a computer. I don't even remember what OS was being used as I just didn't care and just did the required assignments. I do recall something about using Lotus but not much else.
I only became really interested in how PC's work when my sons great grandmother bought him a pc and I reluctantly set it up. Then I got online and found it fascinating, then I installed a game that required the CD to be inserted in order to play it. One day the CD got stuck and wouldn't come out and I could not figure out how to get it out. The repair shop charged me $70 to get it out and I think replace the drive. That made me weary of repair shops enough to tear the thing apart a few weeks later to upgrade the RAM to 16megs from 8 myself. I didn't mess anything up so I went back to school, took a few hardware and networking classes at a local community college (where I found out about this site from another student, wonder if they are still around?)and the rest is history, I still don't know jack really but I have clients who think I know it all.

[SARGE]

Another option same bud uses and puts on customer's PCs:

IObit Start Menu 8 Free download, Bring Start Menu back to Windows 8

[GaryRouth]

Sarge --- the IOBit Start Menu does a nice job of matching the "look" of Windows 8... Spare and sleek. --- Any luck with the printing from eTrade?

Rick --- sounds like you learned plenty! My customers seem to think that I'm going to be like the super-code-wizards they see in the movies & TV shows, but beyond a few command scripts, I never took any programming classes, and generally use widely available tools -- written by other people. I was a literature major in college (so all my customers get long-winded guides about system security & maintenance . . . not too many of them actually get around to reading them).

Can't believe it's still Tuesday, it has been so busy I feel like Friday already.
. . . Gary

[SARGE]

Gary, thanks for asking. Seems my Kaspersky being over-protective, even giving me an invisible virtual keyboard just to login to Chase. Hey, I'll take that layer. Got the printing part licked though. When it comes to financials, Kaspersky kinda like looking over your shoulder, a good thing.

[Hpro]

Originally Posted by MikeMoss Hi After a lot of debate I'm going to raise some ire by suggesting that I don't think people should update from 7 to 8. I used 8 for a year before it went live and I liked it for it's speed and stability. I still like the speed and stability but as far a usability it doesn't work for me. So my advice is for people who work like I do. I constantly have multiple windows open, I access things from my task bar when I'm on line or in other software. I open Word and drag stuff from my browser to it, and back. I open or answer Skype while I'm working in Photoshop or Indesign with out getting out or minimizing the window. I often switch back and forth between programs or have them open side by side like Poser and Photoshop and work back and forth. None of this stuff is easy or in some cases possible in Windows 8. It just makes things too hard to do. Before I got my new computer with the final version of Windows 8 I didn't feel this way, but now I just use Classic Shell and ignore the Metro interface and all of the Windows 8 apps (most if not all of which are inferior to the normal Windows programs you are used to using like Live Mail) completely. The Windows Mail app can't even access my Mail account, (doesn't like POP3) Live Mail no problem at all. So if you are using Windows 7 and having good results stay with it until Windows 9 and we'll see what happens then. Whew, now I feel better! LOL Mike

Sorry to have to disagree with you..

All it takes is to download Classic Shell, install it takes only 30Seconds..
And then Disable all Windows 8 Trash takes another 5 minutes.. and afterwards you will have a superfast, supers table OS and you can do everything what you could do on XP - Windows 7..

The core under is still Windows 2000 Server 2003 and Windows 7 to 85%.
Actually Microsoft did change much in Security in the OS.. but the Real Function from the earlier Windows Versions are still there..

They invented EFI Bios so all the script kiddies cant fool the BIOS anymore,, unless it is switched off..

I'm a real great Windows 7 lover but after Tuning windows 8 * talking about Release Candidate* I sure can live without Windows 7 as well..

Now windows 8 RTM it ugly like a pig, but also there are some few Tricks and in a few minutes it will be as beautiful as Windows 7 was..

The Main reason Microsoft stripped Windows 8 so much is because it has to be able to run on 1.2Ghz ARM Dual core Processors for the Tablet.. And I think Microsoft was again in a Race against Time. So they released an unfinished OS.. windows Blue * Say Windows 9* will be the follow up as far as I know will be released for Public in July this year..

There are also some Animations of Windows 9 on the net at present time.. and if only the half is true then there are real good Computer times to come.

Sources are talking about two versions of Windows 9, one for Tablets, Phones and low grade hardware and the second for the hi speed comps...

Oh BTW that's what Apple is going to do this Summer as well with iPhone 5..
All Plastic for a cheaper price..

So, that's from my side..
Regards

[jdeb]

At the end of the day, it's a flippin OS. I still prefer an OS to do what I tell it to do and this is just another MS product that limits you. I like them lean and with only the applications I need to execute a certain task. However, I am learning another one yet again for my customers...

I am running it on my test rig. I am running it on my test touch device. It is faster than W7 but who cares unless you have really old hardware. It is for touch devices, plain and simple. When comparing both it is logical on the touch device but not on the desktop. I will not put it on a new desktop build unless the customer has to have it or they stop making W7. Classic Shell or Start 8 help the XP, or Vista users transition. Makes no logical sense to upgrade from W7 unless the customer wants some free store apps. Someone says Security? that is a slippery slope as reason to upgrade. Granted it is more secure with MSE and Smart Boot (newer hardware UEFI) but how MS assigns account privileges will always be the Achilles heel.

Again, it is an OS. Does it make creating a document easier? Does it make the development of that script easier? Does it make that game a better gaming experience? Does it make the web better? In my opinion, the only thing it makes better is open source software because people are starting to realize that it is not in the OS but in the applications. I will tell you something else, the desktop is not dead... the OS's are.

[SARGE]

I'm back to Win7 Pro 64 bit. Maybe try Win8 again someday. Someday

[glc]

Sarge, wait for Windows 9.

[K A Hall]

Storage Spaces and File History are 2 things I finally discovered while using 8 that I really really like so I even bought it for my older system which is now where all my backups and media reside. I'm not a huge media collector but I have some and might start saving more of it now.